Picasso said:

I think this brings me back to my original point about needing to have multiple firing arcs covered. I'm glad you've found this as well, that the boost action can totally change what you can and can't attack. This is a very important point that very few people have found out, from what I have seen. Like I said earlier, for Imperials, this takes away some of the squad cohesion that was necessary in Wave 1, in favor of being able to face your ships multiple ways in order to cover different firing arcs. This takes a whole new style of play for Imperials, and I don't think many people have found that out yet. With Wave 1, there was a learning curve for how to play Imperials. With Wave 2, there's a brand new learning curve just with TIEs, not to mention the Firespray. I think once people figure out how effective the Boost action is, you will see the shift away from swarms towards individual pilots that do well by themselves.

And another point about Awings/Interceptors, they both have 3 agility. If you can learn how to fly them close to asteroids without hitting them, you will be able to use that extra die, which can be a big difference. I played a game against Ziggy, and he was skirting the asteroids very well, using them for the extra die, and it was quite effective. Especially once you throw Stealth Device onto either ship, you're rolling a lot of defense dice. This is another instance where the Boost action comes into play, because if you end your maneuver close enough to an asteroid, you can do the bank Boost and hide behind it fairly easily.

AncientAngel said:

This has been discussed in an earlier thread:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=331&efcid=6&efidt=764343

The general feeling is that splash damage does not remove Stealth because of the way being "hit by an attack" is defined in the rule book. There is room for the other interpretation, though, and we await the next FAQ to (hopefully) clear up many questions about Wave 2 stuff.

And to bring this back on-topic: re: Stealth Device, hothie has it right that it may be one of the big game-changers. The times I've used it (or faced it), it has proven to be very powerful. I've been victimized by that Dark Curse of his that has never been hit…

What I've found that works best against Stealth Device and Dark Curse combo are four different tactics.

1.) As I've mentioned else where in this thread using multiple Assault Missiles to deliver splash damage to him.  You now only need to deal one damage to take him off the board.

2.) Proton Torps.  It is risky as all hell, but you can change a die with out a focus use.

3.) Using a YT-100 with Luke as a copilot.  On that second attack he can change one focus die to a hit.  

4.) The most affective, Wedge.  Three dice on three dice favors the shooter statistically.  Now you cannot reroll or focus against Dark Curse but you can use marksmanship.  OH MY GOD!  There is a use for this card!  

Before Worlds my cousin asked me why I don't use "Dark Curse" in my list and I said, "Any chump with Marksmanship will shoot him down."  I've played against the Dark Curse Combo three times now and I've found that after using him with Marksmanship in two games against it, Wedge rocks it.  Any pilot with this upgrade can do it but Wedge does it the best.  Which now brings up the age-old argument how to keep him on the board long enough to get the points out of him?

Picasso said:

Biggs +R2F2 + stealth, chewbacca + draw their fire, R2D2 +shield upgrade on himself. no elusiveness for him since you already have marksmanship

I'm still new, but would the ion cannons play a bigger role against the new bigger ships?  The chance to knock them out is a chance to take out a bigger chunk of the enemy force.

As I mentioned before, the large ships need 2 Ion hits in order to be affected by them, so you're committing half of your squad at minimum just to try and Ion 1 large ship. I think you'll find most people will say it's not worth the points.

hothie said:

I agree, it doesn't appear to be worth the points. But the large ships have a greater chance of landing on an asteroid, which means an ion hit will not only disable them, it will prevent them from attacking that turn. Now THAT has potential.

Given everything that I'm seeing about imperial maneuverability w/ Tie Interceptors (and fewer ships), I'm really thinking I'm going to throw another Y Wing w/ Ion Cannon in my rebel lists at first -- at least until I see less push the limits in lists.  To really spoil highly maneuverable lists, you could go:

Lando, Expose, Weapons Engineer, Milennium Falcon
Gold Squadron, Ion Cannon, R2
Gold Squadron, Ion Cannon, R2

360 arcs of fire everywhere, and as soon as you ion cannon something (or line up a good shot), Lando can switch to expose (ideally on something target locked) and blow it out of space.  It also has 29 hit points. so if your opponent has fewer ships they may run out of punch before you take much damage.

I have been thinking the same thing. My 'defensive' squad, for dealing with high maneuverability, push the limit ships is as follows.

Gold Squadron Pilot, R2-D2, Ion Cannon

Gold Squadron Pilot, R5 unit, Ion Cannon

Chewbacca, YT-1300, Millenium Falcon, Veteran Instincts, Gunner.

I think that Stealth and PtL will change the meta, especially for the Imperials. I have run the A-Wings and the Interceptor with variations of Stealth and PtL builds. One ship changes the dynamic, two or more will shift the paradigm.

Both Turr and Tycho can be quite devastating when used as a strike force that comes in from the side whilst the rest of the squad keep you busy.

My cousin took a four ship rebel build into the Kessel run and did something most players have not been able to do.  He out maneuvered ties in the asteroid field.  He defeated ALL TIE swarms that he faced except mine.  To note he was winning our match until I rolled four crits on Wedge and then four hits with backstabber against Skywalker. 

Where am I going with this?  What I think GOOD players are going to start to do is use upgrade cards to manuver ships better than they have before wave two. Using the engine upgrade card on Y-wings with ion canons gets things done.  It takes awhile but it works.   Red squadron x-wings picking up a boost to get into range one and shoot before those academy pilots.  Players will begin to drift away from taking a focus with every ship everytime.  

What this thread is doing that not a lot of the others have even started talking about, is how do you modify your style of play, not the ships, to deal with some of the upgrades in the new wave?  

I was playing an Imperial list yesterday I got two games in and I thought I would share my insights:

BTW I very much stole this list from the forums except the Sootir Fell combo(which was the lowest performer):

Back Stabber engines upgrade

Mauler Engines upgrade

Turr Push the limits

Sootir Fell - Daredevil - I have to rethink this because it didn't come up as much as I would have liked.

Game One I played  - A-wing Homing missile, Wedge with R2 D2, and 2 x rookie pilots. This was a newer squad for my opponent and she was having growing pains using them. Still it was an awesome game.

1) I forced myself to try to boost as my action as much as I could. I wanted try it out, and I have to say WOW. I think with the fact that I knew where my opponents final position of her ships(I had mostly higher pilot skill) I was easily able to get into a firing arc where my ships could shoot and hers couldn't. Comboing barrel roll and boost is just fantastic.

2) You have to be extra careful setting up you positions, because if you expose one of your ties they are still ties and they die very fast when X-wings are firing at range one.

3) In tight. I believe that rebel ships (barring the A-wing) are better in tight than tie's. There ability to go forward one or bank 1 gives them the edge I think in the pack. I know that Tie's have the sharp 1, but that is it the next shortest move they have is 2 forward. What I have learnt from this is once the pile starts setting up it is best to get out of dodge with a forward move five and then regroup and go back in. The Boost again is great for this. I got target locked by the A-wing, and I just flew my Tie out beyond range three regrouped and came back in for the kill before the missiles got to shoot.

Game two I played - 3 Interceptor (pilot skill 4) and three academy pilots. This game I lost, but I took a lot from it. I was playing a sort of swarm and I thought my ties were doomed.

1) Again my high pilot skill allowed me to see where all of his ships were ending up before I moved which was a big advantage. Again I just boosted into lanes where I can shoot and my opponent could not.

*note my secound move with FELL was a K turn 3 which had him in front of 4 ties facing the wrong way!! lesson always double check your dials. LOL

2) when you make that first pass and you 'get out of dodge' I used boost a few times to get myself out of fire ranges. Totally stole Hothie's barrel  roll push the limits boost on Turr worked beautifully.

3) The lesson that ended up being the end of me. When you are in tight get out of there rather than doing a sharp 1 or lazy two. What happened was I went to turn and bumped and that in turned bumped my other ship and left me exposed and with out actions. My ties went down like chumps. Until this poin the game looked like it was mine. I was a head in points and I was in a good position, but I got cocky like a kid from Tatooine.

I have to say the game felt more dynamic with this list. Rather than formation flying I was broken up and weaving and dodging. It made the game feel more intense. I am looking forward to seeing how the guys who are going to stick with the low pilot skill formation squads change to adapt to maneuverable squads to keep them in their sites.

hothie said:

Remember that that 1st Ion token remains on the ship for the whole game until a second Ion hit happens.  You don't technically need 2 ships with Ion attacks as you can hit the large ship once and then just wait for the large ship to make a bad move, hit it again with the ion attack and let it careen itself off the map.  A large ship with an Ion token on it can start to get real limited in where it moves.  Especially the Firespray which doesn't have that critical 1 speed hard right/left turn.

spacemonkeymafia said:

That is excellent! I remembered that they held onto the token, but it never occurred to me that this might alter the way the player flies their big ship(s). Maybe Wedge + Biggs + Gold w/ ion x2 will still be viable. Although I understand your point about only needing one ion cannon, in my experience attacks against ships with 3 agility rarely deal more than one damage anyway, so I don't see the Ion Cannon Turret as much of a sacrifice. It's definitely a boon.

Picasso said:

1) Now that 3 Agility and Stealth are both part of the meta, how are you going to deal with Agility 4 ships in a tournament time limit? 

2) Now that both factions have a cool new ship with double-digit hit points, how are you going to kill a ship that can absorb that kind of damage?

Not every opponent will field either of those things, and against some opponents you might be able to simply ignore the tank or zippy little mosquitoes. But many lists will force you to do at least one, so it might be worth some thought.

Picasso said:

Discussing modifying style of play is going to be difficult to discuss without lists.  A high pilot skill imperial list with lots of push the limits and interceptors (or Engine upgrades) might be brutal against a 4 X-Wing list with lower pilot skills.  On the flip side, if that same imperial list comes up against Wedge with Veteran Instincts, Luke With Veteran Instancs, and Tycho with Veteran Instincts, those boost and barrel rolls will be mostly useless for getting out of fire arcs.  

Personally, I'll be trying some lists with as many different actions on them as possible while having squad leader or dutch around.  A prototype A-Wing may not get much use out of boost on its own, but if i have Lando and Sqad Leader Wedge around, the A-Wing can evade as its action, then either boost or target lock when Lando activates, and then Focus or something else with Wedge's Squad Leader.  I think versatility is going to be the name of the game after wave two hits, and pre planned strategies are going to work a whole lot less.