AshesFall said:

Indeed.

If the game would only consist of the core game would have no problem with the DS-dial.

It's just i think it will hinder gameplay/theme in the future whenthe game gets larger and has more expansions. With the dial the game will force you to play basically sneaky rebels vs menacing empire. Not that i have anything against that per se, i just would like to have the option not to play it so. By having the DS-dial as an objective-type instead it would still have everything you said above but with the option to not have it (if you would want yo play bounty hunter etc). Having asymetrical winning conditions in a otherwise symetrical game just feels… odd.

Also, i like how they said that the DS-dial was just an abstraction of the dark sides influence and not really the death star, yet here we have cards like trench run treating it like it's the death star.

and sorry for the namecalling TS.

Would the dial be looked upon more favourably if it were called a "Dark Side Dial" rather than a "Death Star Dial"? I feel the choice of its name has led to most of the bad feeling against it. I think I heard or read that the dial represents the growing power of the Dark Side, after all, rather than the building site that created the Death Star, so while the game isn't always going to be about taking out the bad guys' superweapon but about stopping the spread of evil, it will always feel something like the Battle of Yavin happening time after time after time. Showing the spread of evil could perhaps have been done better, but the abstract way of counting up to a set goal seems to be about standard for other games, after all. 

But it's called the Death Star dial, and it looks like a Death Star. So I guess we'll just have to live with it. 

Personally, I am still really over-excited for this game. It isn't the game I was hoping for, but the game that has been shown to me in the previews thus far has got me really very excited. I play all of FFG's LCGs except Netrunner, and enjoy them all, but there seems to be something different about this one. Whether it'll be "truly groundbreaking" as they promised back in February will remain to be seen, of course, but the fact that it feels very different so far is definitely going in its favour. There will, I think, be a lot more to it than just trying to destroy your enemy's cards, that these discussions about the deckbuilding will fade into the background. 

Or, at least, I hope they do…

Bolfa Fluffbelly said:

These are some good points I think. I believe that we will stay with the "original triology" for quite a long time in this game, with the different episodes being the "main release sets". For the first triology, I think the death star dial itself will work well. For an episode IV theme the trench run attack card works well, for an epidode five theme they may do something different with the dial, other cards and so on.

Perhaps they will introduce entirely other mechanics and alternatives with later sets, when moving beyond the original triology? We'll just have to wait and see. :)

For now however, I am conviced that the basic set (I.e. episode IV, with the coming monthly packs to flesh out the episode IV block) is very nicely done theme wise. I'll definetly support the game through this first cycle and have fun with it with my friends. After this cycle, we'll see what they come up with and reevaluate. Perhaps it's best to approach this game on a "per cycle" basis? Just thinking out loud here. :)

I am remaining cautiously optimistic for this one and will buy at least the core set. I own every core set except for Cthulhu anyway. However I am a huge fan of Lord of the Rings as well and yet really do not like that game at all and do not play or bought anything beyond the one core set. I am a Star Wars nut and look forward to a Star Wars game and am remaining open to like or dislike it. So far I like what I have seen but will need to give the rules a good overview soon as they are out to really decide.

Well. Good and bad. For me the combined space, land, lighsabre etc fight is something that let me down, when one evok can destroy super star destroyer.. well that is easy to understand, but rancor killing a star destroyer is really much harder… It is all about making the game rules more easier, but it eats the feeling of being out there.

The deck building system seems to be ok. The art is fine. The rest, have to see the real thing before those…

I'm willing to deal with a minor bit of abstraction of theme if it facilitates a more streamlined gameplay.  I loved the old Decipher version, but there were situations in that that, while not as ridiculous as a Rancor vs a ISD, definitely pulled you out of the moment.  I remember one of my last tournaments playing against a deck that was trying to blow up the shield generator on Endor, but also included Pod Racing.  Having units be basically universal will keep the player interactions high.

As far as the Death Star dial, the Death Star represented the ultimate power in the universe. The dial is the Darkside's ultimate power in this game, representing the inevitability that the Rebels are trying to avoid. If this game sticks to mainly original trilogy and beyond, the dial being a Death Star isn't the worst thing in the world. I'm also willing to bet that Disney somehow brings a Death Star into the new movies.

AshesFall said:

Yes… But why have the dial in the first place? If you would replace the dial with an objective that works like the dial you would still have the same mechanic but could choose not to use said mechanic. It would also make it easier to expand and make the game more customizable.

I feel like a parrot repeating myself but dials aint for me.

 And bringing a Death Star to the new trilogy is the worst idea ever. Bringing it back in Return of the Jedi was bad enough.

Bolfa Fluffbelly said:

Its a game timer. They want the game to conclude within a reasonable amount of time. With no impetus, games can devolve into stalemates, where players are either unwilling, or unable to do anything. Does this provide any unfair advantage to the Dark side, perhaps. However, since we hardly know any of the cards, it's hard to discern how much of an advantage this really is.

I'm willing to see more on how the game plays before I declare the DSD as the worst idea in the history of card games.

Bolfa Fluffbelly said:

They could choose not to use the mechanic now too. Just like with every rule in games like this they can make a card that will bend or break them at their will. 

I don't mind the dial. Its just a thematic representation of an imposed interactive time limit. They obviously felt they needed it in the game to prevent extremely long matches. I can see this being especially important when you have to play two games (one as light, one as dark) in a tournament round.

And, the objective set deck building makes sense. I'm not 100% on board with it, but they are trying to shake things up a little bit and make the game more accessible to casual players. I think this does that, and while it does hinder the hard-core deck builder, it still leaves enough decision points to give a good builder advantage over a poor one.

My biggest problem with what we've seen so far continues to be with the gameplay. As others have stated, its so generic. I might as well be playing cowboys vs indians, axis vs allies, or any other opposing factions. Tap (focus) a card, spend a resource, play an event. Its Magic/VS/GoT/etc all over again. They just call it different names and hope the intellectual property makes up for it. Which, I must admit, it does. I won't touch Magic, but if someone came out with a balanced Star Wars game that played identical to it, I'd play it. And, the starship vs character interaction is just flat out lazy. The designers should have done better in that regard (unless things have changed since the previews).

But, in short, its Star Wars, so I'll give it a shot. Even lackluster game mechanics can be overlooked if it does a successful job of making me feel like I'm in the Star Wars universe.

 Well there is a pretty big difference between focusing a card in SWLCG and tapping in magic. You can get multiple focus tokens on your card in SW, taking many rounds or special abilities to remove them all and be able to use the card again. 

houjix1138 said:

Maybe i'm not making myself clear but how does making the dial into an objective take away the gametimer aspect?

 It's the concept of the dial i'm against, not what it represent.

I wouldn't call focus vs tap a 'pretty big' difference. They've just spiced it up a little, but the core concept is identical.

The game timer can't be an objective, because the objectives are how you build your decks and collect resources. If you made the game timer one of those, then every dark side deck would have to choose it. Or, if they didn't have to choose that objective when creating a deck, then you eliminate the built in time stop that they're going for. I'm not saying that they couldn't have found a different mechanic other than the dial, but I don't think mixing it with objectives would work well.

gokubb said:

I guess it is a matter of opinion then, because in play they might both be ways to denote a cards use but how  and to the extent they are used it is very different.

gokubb said:

Sure it can, just make it an obligatory objective that you have to start with. Make it powerful with some less powerful cards that go with it.

I would have prefered that the objectives themself were more dynamic instead of the stale resource-cards we got now. Mixing in winning conditions with the objectives would make more sense.