dvang said:

First, I have not mentioned anything about Horton one-shotting anything.  If you read back I even said that one torpedo is likely a waste.  I'm talking about what two torpedoes will generally yield.  In response to Hothie getting so little from his, which given the odds behind the event are really low chance and atypical.

Secondly, peoples one time try and poor dice rolling aren't really a strong foundation to an argument.  In the same way the occasional low chance one shot torpedo would make a poor argument.  It's a false generalization.

My point being that Hothie's experience with torpedoes (dual especially) are really just low percentage and as such aren't a place to form a negative opnion from.  In the same way low percentage positive event wouldn't be a reason to argue favorably for them.  The tactical application of 8pts spent in order to gain an early kill is something to debate.  Especially with what you give up to take the ordenence/give up to take the needed pilots to give you the odds.

Keep in mind, I didn't play against any Imperial squads with Horton. So I wasn't going to one-shot anything. The best I did was take some shields down, IIRC. Just wasn't worth it to me. And now we have Interceptors. Who needs Rebel scum anyway? :P

ScottieATF said:

While I realize you didn't directly state anything about 1-shotting, the inference was there with the "3-hits" by Horton. My point wasn't about 1-shotting with a single torpedo either, although I suppose it might have seemed that way.

Yes, a one-time-try with torpedoes is not by itself a strong argument. However, it does become interesting when you have dozens of people saying that their attempts to use proton torpedoes have not worked well. Rather than one person making multiple attempts, you have multiple people making a few attempts each.  It comes out pretty similar overall.

Again, it is not to say that torpedoes cannot theoretically be useful. As you mentioned, 8 pts to kill something will theoretically be in your favor, even if it is just killing a 12-pt TIE.  Something juicier like Wedge or even a rookie X-wing at 21pts is a net gain.  Then again, those 8 points might not kill anything at all. 

Another thing to consider, too, is the worth of 8 points of (one-use) torpedoes vs 8 points of other upgrades.

Especially in Rebel lists, 8 pts is usually at a premium. 8 points can allow some really good astromech upgrades, or pilot upgrades. Now, with Wave 2, those points could also be useful for ship mods.  8 pts for 2x torpedoes, or 8 points for an extra shield on two ships, like Biggs and Wedge?  How about 8 points for an engine upgrade+daredevil on Wedge? 8 points for Stealth devices on Biggs and Luke? And so on. Is the gain worthwhile for spending 8pts on torpedoes?

There is no right or wrong answer. It all comes down to personal experience and preference. Many people have had bad luck with torpedoes, despite what the odds say. Those will likely (and probably already have) avoid torpedoes in favor or more consistent and predicatable upgrades. Others, who have had good luck with torpedoes, will likely continue to use them.

As I look back over this thread, I think there is a bit of a disconnect. I think "dozens of people saying that their attempts to use proton torpedoes have not worked well" probably refers to single torpedo usage, and not to them setting up the two-shot attack that is the key to Scottie's whole argument. As has been mentioned, a single torpedo attack is probably not going to get a kill (though it is statistically possible) but ganging up for multiple shots on a single target raises the odds exponentially. It is certainly very thematic, since the Rebels had to have multiple torpedo attacks to take down that first Death Star…

Torpedoes are certainly not the one-shot-one-kill weapon that Cluster or Concussion Missiles can be, but when used as Scottie proposes they can almost guarantee a kill. The question then becomes whether that 8 points is worth it.

I guess all my assumptions are based on Rebel against Imperial. In mirror matches, the torps become less effective, probably.

ziggy2000 said:

On the contrary, Torpedoes are far more useful and powerful in a Rebel mirror match.

Rebels have, generally, less evade dice and no access to the evade action, meaning that you generally get more hits. It's still not a one shot kill, because of the shields, but can be pretty devestating.

Especially when Wedge fires one at a Y-Wing.

godofcheese said:

Upon reflection I will agree that due to the lack of evade, torpedoes will do more damage in Rebel mirror matches than I had originally thought. Still, I stand by my statement that the general feeling of torpedoes being useless comes from them not being used to maximum effectiveness, as described by ScottieATF.