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Andur Saibot said:
Another question:
What the "It's worse!" game text exactly means? Besides the extra point of damage, I understand it works like Counter-Stroke but, because of how it is written, I wonder: Does this card actually cancels the effect of a card after responses to that effect can be played and passive abilities activated? Can bring destroyed cards from the grave (an objective destroyed with "Rebel Assault" for instance) and with 0 damage on them?
It stacks in a push/pop sequence.
Something triggers (call it A).
Someone triggers an interrupt (B) on A.
Someone then play's It's Worse (C) which is an interrupt to (B).
C gets executed first. It cancels B's effect.
Any reactions to C's cancellation effects would now be triggered and executed.
C then gets to deal 1 damage.
Any reactions to C's damage would now be triggered and executed.
B now nominally executes, but its effect is cancelled. (No reactions to what B *would* have done had it not be cancelled can be triggered.)
A now executes.
Reactions to A now trigger and execute.
Because of this stacking nature, and the resolution of all interrupts before the interrupted effects are executed (and their reactions), there's never any wind-back, so there's no destroying of cards and then bringing them back from the grave due to cancellation of effects.
Hope that helps.
Patrick
PBrennan said:
Because of this stacking nature, and the resolution of all interrupts before the interrupted effects are executed (and their reactions), there's never any wind-back, so there's no destroying of cards and then bringing them back from the grave due to cancellation of effects.
Hope that helps.
Patrick
Very helpful. Thank you very much, kind sir. And now I also see one cancels Events and the other Interrupts, which I assume is the base of my confusion.
Obi-Wan has taught you well…
Aahzmandius_Karrde said:
Redblock said:
Rules itself gave me new question. LS objective Fleeing the empire says "After you refresh, place 1 shield on a target unit or objective you control". sounds good and logical, but in rulebook refresh phase goes like this "1. remove one token from each unit, you can use after you refresh powers after completing this stage. 2. remove all shield tokens from all your cards."
So if my understanding is corect you place token with fleeing the empire, as its part 1 of phase, and remove it immediatly? Or I got some part of resolution wrong?
No refresh is the entire phase, not the action of removing a focus token from a card/cards. So looking at page 30 you would place the shield token at the point that says "Refresh phase ends".
Fleeing the Empire says "after you refresh", not "after your refresh phase". The rulebook (pg 12) explicitly says you use "after you refresh" effects between steps 1 and 2 of the Refresh Phase. Which means that shield token would be removed immediately, so they probably meant the card to say "after your refresh phase".
Also, for a card like "A New Hope", are there any instructions for who chooses first when players need to "simultaneously" resolve an effect? I didn't see it in the rules. In Invasion the players make their choices starting with the active player, but I've always thought it should start with the next player, since the WHI way puts the active player at a disadvantage.
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What about the fact that the rule book says you "Any effect with the text “after you refresh” can be used after completing this step." Does the word can mean you don't have to do it, so you can begin using those abilities starting at that stage, but could also use it anytime during the refresh phase? Or does it mean you have to do it right then or you can't do it at all? If the former, problem solved! Otherwise, there's gotta be an errata coming on this one.
Yeah, I think there will either be an errata for the card itself or just a change to the rules to move the "after you refresh" trigger to later in the refresh phase.
Re "after you refresh" effects: they're all executed at the end of the refresh phase, literally "after you refresh". This allows you to execute "after you refresh, place shields" type effects correctly. It also allows you to execute any "after you refresh" effects on new objectives that you've just revealed. I suspect the line in the rules slipped in late as a "help newbies" type thing - it's simply misplaced.
Re resolution of simultaneous effects that affect multiple players: with all FFG LCGs, the player who triggered the effect resolves theirs first, and resolutions then proceed in clockwise order. No change here.
Patrick
PBrennan said:
Re "after you refresh" effects: they're all executed at the end of the refresh phase, literally "after you refresh". This allows you to execute "after you refresh, place shields" type effects correctly. It also allows you to execute any "after you refresh" effects on new objectives that you've just revealed. I suspect the line in the rules slipped in late as a "help newbies" type thing - it's simply misplaced.
Re resolution of simultaneous effects that affect multiple players: with all FFG LCGs, the player who triggered the effect resolves theirs first, and resolutions then proceed in clockwise order. No change here.
Patrick
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but do you work for ffg? If not, your assertion about the refresh phase directly contradicts the rule book… if you do, thanks for the quick clarification.
No, I don't work directly for FFG - I'm actually based in Sydney. But I am listed as a playtester in the rules for the core set, and I've been assisting as editor with the expansions, if that helps with the ol' credibility :-)
It helps… but it still doesn't change that your description directly contradicts the rule book. Typo in the rules, I guess?
Speaking of which, is there any chance the section of the rules that reads, "Exception: During his first turn only, the LS player does not take this step of the refresh phase [of removing one focus token from each card in his play area]," should actually refer to the DS instead? I see no reason why this would apply to the LS but not to the DS, since the latter takes the first turn of the game.
"Truth has power. And if we all gravitate toward similar ideas, maybe we do so because those ideas are true…written deep within us. And when we hear the truth, even if we don't understand it, we feel that truth resonate within us…vibrating with our unconscious wisdom. Perhaps the truth is not learned by us, but rather, the truth is re-called…re-membered…re-cognized…as that which is already inside us." Peter Solomon, The Lost Symbol
This part is correct as is. Otherwise the LS player can play events with impunity on the DS's first turn, then the LS can refresh their hand and get all their resources back to re-spend. That would be too much of an advantage to the LS.
But the "after the refresh" part of the rulebook is definitely incorrect (it was caught, but too late for fixing). FFG obviously can't put out any FAQ's or official clarifications themselves until the game is actually released.
PBrennan said:
FFG obviously can't put out any FAQ's or official clarifications themselves until the game is actually released.
That seems like a ridiclous statement. First the game is already out there. Second they've released the rules publically, not just the fan scan. While it's a shame to have to put out a correction before the game even hits retail shelves what law is preventing them from doing so? I'd rather have the official clarification out there now than have to waffle on someone who notices the inconsistancy right after we get our hands on it.
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Or we could just stop arguing about something that we all understand how it works and how the card works and continue to count down the days till the game is in our hands.
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PBrennan said:
FFG obviously can't put out any FAQ's or official clarifications themselves until the game is actually released.
PBrennan: Do you know if there is an errata in "Lightsaber Deflection" and it should have the Force trait? I know I am stubborn on this one but I keep thinking it should have it.
Thank you.
Obi-Wan has taught you well…
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