I've listed my feelings already, and I havent seen anyone else give any thoughts on balance at all, so I guess my idea is as balanced as can be expected? Or do other people have actual counter proposals on how to balance deathwatch characters with RT characters with DH characters?

Seeten said:

Gaire makes a very strong point with the notion that marines do not loot.

Also, where exactly is this mythical "gear a rank 7 acolyte" should have? As far as I know there is no such thing beyond assuming what type of weapons they're getting at that rank, and some form of carapace armour. Wealth per XP doesn't really count as it breaks down once someone takes Noble born.

I do agree that a "primary" combat system should be defined.

Right now, I am running a DH/DW game (DW as the core). Right now, the Inquisitor is gaining influence at about the same rate the party gets renown (will taper off eventually). For each mission, I let the DH characters make one influence check per 30 requisition the marines have. Beyond that, I allow influence checks mid mission as appropriate. Overall this works fluff wise as the inquisitor is working out of Erioch alongside the marines (sticking with the established setting this game). Players are enjoying it.

If I had RT characters, I would handle the Profit Factor much the same way as influence, representing deals and services with the Inuqisition for working so closely with an inquisitor/kill team.

I'm not sure how I would handle it if it was more free-form/kill team missions govern the primary gameplay. I would probably request that any given endeavour/investigation have defined objectives for the marines (with I as the GM defining the req. value), and then hand wave some sort of gear acquisition from the Deathwatch.

 Working out a requisition system like the Battle Sister's in Blood of Martyrs might work, though that would take a lot of work on figuring out when the Battle Brother should get what. Tie his Renown to his rank and say he can only carry, say, a basic or heavy weapon, one or two pistols, and two melee weapons at a time. That way, he's not just getting "free weapons" for every deployment, but he's able to alter his kit and get better gear as he increases in rank. Non-weaponry wargear would take a bit of thought, though.

If I were playing a marine, I'd be perfectly happy with Signature Wargear. Maybe I'm an exception, I dunno.

Whats the mythical gear of a Rank 7 Acolyte? I dunno, a decent gun and a decent melee weapon, and maybe a couple of other gear type things, a chameleoline cloak, etc. Certainly nothing thats gonna do the 1d10+23 damage that a chainsword is gonna do in a Marine's hands. =P

I guess everyone could do requisition from the same Marine chart. How would you explain that, though, if the Marine wasn't with his chapter? Who would he be requisitioning gear from? The Inquisition? (I'm not sure we're working for the Inquisition, either, to be completely transparent)

If the Marine gets his 14000 xp equivalent starting xp, and all his gear and requisitions, and everything else, how much xp should the RT and DH people have to compete with that?

My idea dropped the xp of the RT and DH people to below 10,000 and accounted for it by keeping the DW Marine from swinging thunder hammers and wielding multi-meltas. If they can have all the special ammo they want, and whatever weaponry they like, what sort of balance keeps an Assassin from being massively overshadowed?

 I guess perhaps the GM should weigh in once again, no?

The main combat system? DeathWatch.

Influence/Profit Factor/Requisition is going to be handled independently by each of their actions. While their will be specific goals that will need to be met there may be mission states specific to each group that the others may not know about and may even be somewhat counter to what needs to be accomplished. So while it may not be entirely "fair" the setting itself is a very unforgiving place so to that I say tough luck. Though I will do my best to ensure that it is balanced. And there is only 1 character from Rogue Trader and that is the Arch-Militant so Profit Factor won't be as big of an issue I will probably use a different version of Requisition since they are suppose to be the best of the human soldiers in the Imperium.

As for the setting…. The Inquisitorial Vessel "Testament of His Wrath" was returning to an Inquisition world whose location is not on any star chart. After the end of their most recent mission they had to call upon the aid of the Space Marines. A psychic shock wave races across the Warp dragging the vessel millions of miles off course. They arrive above an unknown world dominated by a massive city with the tallest spires nearly breaching the atmospheric envelope. Parts of this ancient, massive hive are burning with strange psychically fueled fires. Also in orbit is an immense space hulk unlike anything they have ever seen.

They also detected on long range auspex a comet of warp energy contained with twisted and tainted stone. It was pulled from the warp by the psychic. While such a thing may not have normally been a problem the planetary defense grid is offline. The other ships that were also pulled off course some crashed into the planet others dead in space. Testament's energy grid is fluctuating heavily and they cannot fire the guns without risking critical systems. On top of their other duties restoring enough power to the planetary defense guns is of high importance.

 Out of curiosity, HeavenlyLily, where do you stand on the Marine equipment debate? Also, Seeten, where are you getting this 1d10+23 number for a chainsword wielded by a Rank 1 Marine? I've only seen damage rolls like that from power weapons wielded by Rank 5 or higher Marines. …Well, that or a Librarian's force sword, but a Librarian in a combined arms game raises a whole 'nother hill of balance issues. Also, another question: for any psykers, will they be using their "home" psychic power system or converting to either PRd10 or Willpower Focus Power Tests?

Space Marines are the grandchildren of the Emperor himself, sons of the Primarchs who are the sons of the Emperor. Given the finest weapons and armor the Imperium can forge to fight in wars no one else can so that humanity will survive into the next millennium. I am partial to them still being given all of their starting equipment. How do you justify giving them less in an game setting way? Even the Inquisition cannot just demand Space Marine support, they need to ask the Chapter Master. To dishonor one Marine is to dishonor his entire chapter and that is not something most inquisitors are willing to do.

Now equipment after the fact since most equipment needs to be made to fit a Space Marine may be a bit of an issue unless they can find some sanctified weapons or an armorer to repair and outfit their power armor. I want to preserve that epic quality of the Space Marines, but taking away that which defines them then why play them?

 We have no psychic characters… Space Wolf, Arch-Militant, Magos, Assassin and a Sister of Battle so that issue is not an immediate concern of mine. Though if it were to come up ever I will default to the DeathWatch psychic system since that is the vessel I am using for combat.

Gaire said:

When I was looking at the balance, I made characters of each system to see what was what. The Space Marine had an 80 strength with Unnatural x2, totalled up to 1d10+23 all told.

Strength is: 40 +20 power armor +10 Marks to armor +10 new arms on armor, so not even as high as it could be with a +5 from Chapter and a 20 from stat instead of +10.

TheHeavenlyLily said:

Just to note, I never advocated the Marines not getting their standard equipment, I only suggested they not be able to requisition new equipment. Still, I'm not GMing it, so those were my feelings on what was balanced.

 Unnatural Strength only applies to the Marine's natural Strength stat. It does not multiply bonuses from armor or any other external bonuses. Using the numbers you gave and the Deathwatch Errata optional stats for the chainsword… that's 1d10+3 base, +4 from the Marine's natural strength doubled to +8, +2 from the armor, +1 from the armor's history, and +1 from the arms you list. That's 1d10+15.

IIRC, there is a +2 from talent, and a +1 or 2 from mastercrafted chainsword. making it 1d10+18 or 19. ;)

 A starting marine won't have Crushing Blow or a Master Crafted Chainsword.

Signature wargear grants 20 req worth of an item, which a mastercrafted chainsword neatly falls into.

 Master-Crafted requires a Renown level of Distinguished, which would be a rather absurd rating for a Rank 1 Marine.