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I love how I can usually tell who the DD is about before I see the big fat chapter symbol...
Anyway, peanut gallery comments aside, still waiting for FFG to mention mechanics or start talking about Jericho Reach itself, that might be interesting. To see what planets are there, what xenos thrive in that area, and what kind of lost colonies await to be found...
Without Signature
MILLANDSON said:
However, think about it. The game has to be solid enough for complete newbies to the 40k setting to get into. This means that the popular chapters have to be involved, because they cover several core concepts, and with their rich history of background, usefully demonstrate just how different one chapter can be from another.
Having a "make your own chapter" rules, to the detriment of having these chapters in the book, would be useless for newbies, as they wouldn't know where to start with it all. Ultimately, with the roleplay books, they have to be newbie friendly. I'm sure you want newbies to buy into the series and help FFG to be able to keep making new books, right?
Plus, they only have between 350-400 pages to use. Some things just won't make the cut, and will have to be put in a future book. It's sad, because we'd all like everything in it, but that's the nature of the book publishing industry.
Truer words were never spoken and I have the same sentiments.
+++It is better to die for something than to live for nothing+++
davidasnoddy said:
Honestly, I think that limiting the initial number of Chapters to a mere six pretty much forces them to do what they're doing
I think 6 chapters is plenty for the core rulebook.
Complaining about only 6 chapters, is like complaining about only 6 homeworlds in Rogue Trader, to be honest. 6 chapters, with various "careers" (did anyone notice that was an Apothecary picture in the Design Diary?) and a decent "origin path" style affair, should give us a wealth of character creation options.
There's plenty of scope to release little known chapters down the line, but leaving out the Ultramarines would be ridiculous, as they are the "base line" of Space Marines, and leaving out the Wolves or the Dark Angels would inspire idiotic nerd rage to the point of hurting sales - probably not to the point of making a large financial impact, but enough for awkward questions to be asked of the DT as to ehy they left out the more popular chapters.
At the end of the day, this is the Deathwatch Core Rulebook - what is core to GW Space Marines? Is it the ability to create your own chapter? Or is it the background and history of those chapters already in existence in the published material?
Finally - rules wise, create your own chapter in the core rules would be a disaster - that's way too much customisation when we haven't established whether or not the rules work. What happens if Full Auto is a bit too powerful in Deathwath given the Marines' increased base BS... and the customisation rules allow for Full Auto specialisation, or something?
"Create your chapter" has to come AFTER the Core Rules - and leaving out a core chapter from the core rules would just leave egg on everyone's faces. There'll still be space for two lesser known chapters - Iron Hands and Black Templars, or something.
My guess, by the way, is that we'll see those two last on the spoilers list, to keep everyone waiting...
I could pick apart most of your statements, but it occurs to me that virtually all of you are cool with the way they've decided to do it, so I'll let it go. If everyone is happy with the lack of variety they've decided to offer, far be it for me to rain on your parade.
Death is the only truth.
oh no theyre adding the core popular chapters that have been a staple of 40k for years how could they do this i dont understand im so upset and im not gonna shut up about it ever
Cool story.
Artemesia said:
oh no theyre adding the core popular chapters that have been a staple of 40k for years how could they do this i dont understand im so upset and im not gonna shut up about it ever
Cool story.
Quite a sophisticated post. I'm left bereft of words at your dizzying intellect.
Death is the only truth.
Oh, and look at that artwork. Apothecary much, anyone? Yay SMURFS! I can now torment my locals officially now. 
-=Brother Praetus=-
"Truth is so precious it must be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
(Fortune Cookie)
"They say that once you have opened the final gate there is no way back."
(Fortune Cookie)
hello
I read this second news and I am quite happy.
I am not a warhammer 40.000 mini player but a roleplayer, My only knowledge of the W40K universe outside of RPG is limited to the space marines in Space Crusade and Space Hulk and also a PC wargame from many years in which was settled in near the Eye of Terror featuring the Ultramarines.
My knowledge of the fluff is mainly based on the Dark Heresy and the Rogue Trader RPG so I am quite happy to learn and learn. That is not an issue form me to have only 6 chapters so.
And I am bewildered when I read someone would pay 60 dollar for the Deathwatch core book. I am french in fact and I must say that buying the RPG books in original version (in english) is less expansive than to buy the french translation, when there is a translation in fact, as it is the fact for Dark Heresy, and soon, Rogue Trader : I bought my Rogue Trader 51 €, that's 68,98 $, so it is 9 $ more that in your country, more expensive ^^;.
Another case in the same gamestore, Dark Heresy in french version : 52.30 € // 70,74 $ ; in english version : 49 € // 66,28 $ if you compare to the FFH price : 59.95 $, that's still less, so it does seem to me that it is less expansive in US :).
Atheosis said:
davidasnoddy said:
Honestly, I think that limiting the initial number of Chapters to a mere six pretty much forces them to do what they're doing
I think 6 chapters is plenty for the core rulebook.
Complaining about only 6 chapters, is like complaining about only 6 homeworlds in Rogue Trader, to be honest. 6 chapters, with various "careers" (did anyone notice that was an Apothecary picture in the Design Diary?) and a decent "origin path" style affair, should give us a wealth of character creation options.
There's plenty of scope to release little known chapters down the line, but leaving out the Ultramarines would be ridiculous, as they are the "base line" of Space Marines, and leaving out the Wolves or the Dark Angels would inspire idiotic nerd rage to the point of hurting sales - probably not to the point of making a large financial impact, but enough for awkward questions to be asked of the DT as to ehy they left out the more popular chapters.
At the end of the day, this is the Deathwatch Core Rulebook - what is core to GW Space Marines? Is it the ability to create your own chapter? Or is it the background and history of those chapters already in existence in the published material?
Finally - rules wise, create your own chapter in the core rules would be a disaster - that's way too much customisation when we haven't established whether or not the rules work. What happens if Full Auto is a bit too powerful in Deathwath given the Marines' increased base BS... and the customisation rules allow for Full Auto specialisation, or something?
"Create your chapter" has to come AFTER the Core Rules - and leaving out a core chapter from the core rules would just leave egg on everyone's faces. There'll still be space for two lesser known chapters - Iron Hands and Black Templars, or something.
My guess, by the way, is that we'll see those two last on the spoilers list, to keep everyone waiting...
I could pick apart most of your statements, but it occurs to me that virtually all of you are cool with the way they've decided to do it, so I'll let it go. If everyone is happy with the lack of variety they've decided to offer, far be it for me to rain on your parade.
Some people will find anything to complain about. Can't you just be thankful that we are getting a Space Marine RPG, as opposed to whining about the smallest of things? Seriously, some people here need to get out more often . . .
Futility
Move him into the sun
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields unsown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morningthis snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.
- Wilfred Owen
Atheosis said:
Artemesia said:
oh no theyre adding the core popular chapters that have been a staple of 40k for years how could they do this i dont understand im so upset and im not gonna shut up about it ever
Cool story.
Quite a sophisticated post. I'm left bereft of words at your dizzying intellect.
Equally astounded by your sarcasm 'skill'. ;)
Futility
Move him into the sun
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields unsown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morningthis snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.
- Wilfred Owen
Atheosis said:
Artemesia said:
oh no theyre adding the core popular chapters that have been a staple of 40k for years how could they do this i dont understand im so upset and im not gonna shut up about it ever
Cool story.
Quite a sophisticated post. I'm left bereft of words at your dizzying intellect.
That'd be a nice change.
To me, these Designer Diaries are quite exciting. I'm really looking forward to the Blood Angels and Dark Angels, because they're my favourite Chapters. I can only imagine that Space Wolf and Ultramarine fans have been pretty thrilled by the last couple of diaries.
At this stage, I don't expect to see FF giving up the real details of content and mechanics (though, of course, I await those as eagerly as the next guy). I'm just keen to see which Chapter will be next. I see roleplay potential for all of them! Maybe it would require more thought and ultimately be more rewarding to come up with a deep and multifaceted Ultramarine character than a Blood Angel...
Darn, I'm excited about this release. However busy my friends are, everyone has already assured our GM (who seems to end up GMing everything) that they will make time for DW!
Wilfred Owen said:
Atheosis said:
davidasnoddy said:
Honestly, I think that limiting the initial number of Chapters to a mere six pretty much forces them to do what they're doing
I think 6 chapters is plenty for the core rulebook.
Complaining about only 6 chapters, is like complaining about only 6 homeworlds in Rogue Trader, to be honest. 6 chapters, with various "careers" (did anyone notice that was an Apothecary picture in the Design Diary?) and a decent "origin path" style affair, should give us a wealth of character creation options.
There's plenty of scope to release little known chapters down the line, but leaving out the Ultramarines would be ridiculous, as they are the "base line" of Space Marines, and leaving out the Wolves or the Dark Angels would inspire idiotic nerd rage to the point of hurting sales - probably not to the point of making a large financial impact, but enough for awkward questions to be asked of the DT as to ehy they left out the more popular chapters.
At the end of the day, this is the Deathwatch Core Rulebook - what is core to GW Space Marines? Is it the ability to create your own chapter? Or is it the background and history of those chapters already in existence in the published material?
Finally - rules wise, create your own chapter in the core rules would be a disaster - that's way too much customisation when we haven't established whether or not the rules work. What happens if Full Auto is a bit too powerful in Deathwath given the Marines' increased base BS... and the customisation rules allow for Full Auto specialisation, or something?
"Create your chapter" has to come AFTER the Core Rules - and leaving out a core chapter from the core rules would just leave egg on everyone's faces. There'll still be space for two lesser known chapters - Iron Hands and Black Templars, or something.
My guess, by the way, is that we'll see those two last on the spoilers list, to keep everyone waiting...
I could pick apart most of your statements, but it occurs to me that virtually all of you are cool with the way they've decided to do it, so I'll let it go. If everyone is happy with the lack of variety they've decided to offer, far be it for me to rain on your parade.
Some people will find anything to complain about. Can't you just be thankful that we are getting a Space Marine RPG, as opposed to whining about the smallest of things? Seriously, some people here need to get out more often . . .
On the other side of the coin, can't a person voice his criticisms of something without being attacked? I guess not.
Death is the only truth.
Wilfred Owen said:
Atheosis said:
Artemesia said:
oh no theyre adding the core popular chapters that have been a staple of 40k for years how could they do this i dont understand im so upset and im not gonna shut up about it ever
Cool story.
Quite a sophisticated post. I'm left bereft of words at your dizzying intellect.
Equally astounded by your sarcasm 'skill'. ;)
Thanks.
Death is the only truth.
Atheosis said:
On the other side of the coin, can't a person voice his criticisms of something without being attacked? I guess not.
It's the internet. So no, not really.
In any case, if you want to complain about something, you shouldn't be surprised when someone complains about your complaining. And now you are complaining about someone complaining about your complaining. And now you have me complaining about your complaining about someone complaining about your complaining...
Or at the very least, you shouldn't be surprised if someone points out flaws in your complaints. There is only so much room in the corebook. It may be 400 pages, but that wasn't enough to provide everything people wanted in the DH or RT corebooks. 6 chapters is plenty, more than that is surplus to requirements and would take up valuable space. Most of the 6 chapters chosen will of course be iconic, to do otherwise would be foolish. They will be providing a chapter creation system for those who want it.
As for printing the core rules separately in another book, some people like it, others don't. For one thing paying another $30 for the system would be annoying. For another, re-releasing the rules allows them to update them with new mechanics, fixing flaws in the previous editions.
Disclaimer: The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for FFG in any capacity, officialotherwise. To be honest they don't really tell me much about anything, so you can assume I don't know squat.
I mean diddly. I don't know diddly. I did not mention squats. Squats are not making a comeback.
Unless they are. I really don't know!!! Seriously. Though squats were cool. Pity they all got eaten by the 'nids. Or did they?
macd21 said:
Atheosis said:
On the other side of the coin, can't a person voice his criticisms of something without being attacked? I guess not.
It's the internet. So no, not really.
In any case, if you want to complain about something, you shouldn't be surprised when someone complains about your complaining. And now you are complaining about someone complaining about your complaining. And now you have me complaining about your complaining about someone complaining about your complaining...
Or at the very least, you shouldn't be surprised if someone points out flaws in your complaints. There is only so much room in the corebook. It may be 400 pages, but that wasn't enough to provide everything people wanted in the DH or RT corebooks. 6 chapters is plenty, more than that is surplus to requirements and would take up valuable space. Most of the 6 chapters chosen will of course be iconic, to do otherwise would be foolish. They will be providing a chapter creation system for those who want it.
As for printing the core rules separately in another book, some people like it, others don't. For one thing paying another $30 for the system would be annoying. For another, re-releasing the rules allows them to update them with new mechanics, fixing flaws in the previous editions.
I would say Atheosis was attacked on a personal level, rather than had any flaws in his complaints pointed out. He was accused of whining, and basically (I paraphrase) told to shut up and get a life, as he should be grateful FFG are good enough to provide us with product.
I think Atheosis is not saying he's unhappy 6 Chapters are detailed, he's unhappy (as am I btw) that the inherent variety the Deathwatch concept offers (ie Marines from almost any Chapter can theoretically serve with them) is not reflected in the core rules where a choice of 1000 Chapters is crushed down to 6. The Chapter creation system you mention is not (afaik) going to be in the core rulebook, it needed to be. It didn't need to be massively space consuming, it certainly didn't need to cover details on 1000 Chapters, we all have access to the internet to look up what's known canonically on a given Chapter, it just needed a solid set of rules for allocating powers, traits and skills, that would allow players to fit specific powers, traits, and skills around known or made-up Chapters.
Atheosis, is I believe I'm right in saying, of the opinion losing one or two (already widely detailed) Chapter write ups, would happily have freed up this space.
I agree with him.
I'm not sure how FFG could have done the rule repetition, but I do think it is far from ideal to have to keep buying the same rules over and over again if you want to have a broad 40k roleplaying system.
My 40k photomanips -
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/rockheimr/images
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