eBarbarossa said:

As far as I know, only Inquisitors in Dark Heresy (Ascention) get Unnatural Willpower (x2) and (x3) on their advance (I'm not sure if they also get x4).

Maese Mateo said:

In DH Ascension:

Inquisitors get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 9 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp). Primaris Psykers get Unnatural Will (x2) at Rank 14 for (1000xp), (x3) at Rank 16 (2000xp).

I don't recall seeing (x4)-unnaturals available for characters anywhere, with the exception of STR (x2 BQ muscle graft + x2 power fist + x2 Barrage (combat drug) = x4).

Sages get Unnatural Int x4 iirc. That might be with cortex implants though.

Death Cult Assassins can get Unnatural Agility x4 too.

nikink said:

Dang, missed those. They're by trait, so no implants involved.

Confirms my suspicions, though. Ascension does hand out unnatural characteristics like free candy.

H2SO4 said:

But only to some careers. 

And if you check which careers are the strongest two the result is two careers with unnatural traits (Psyker and Vindicare)
On the contrary if you check which two are the weakest its two without unnaturals. One clearly being the Stormtrooper. I'd say the second weakest depends on your playstyle.
certainly some individual pc can be weaker than usual despite being of a career that has unnatural trais but I'd say it's unlikely.

Umbranus said:

"Strongest" is a relative term also. From a numbers crunching perspective the Vindicare and Primaris "win". A lot of people like to forget the fact that both these classes are basically property and little more than tools to be used by their master.

Another question is how many GM's out there actually have and enforce strictures for any Death Cult Assassins in their group? They are part of a cult with a strict doctrine after all.

There are a lot of unwritten rules of who and what something is, including how they interact in the 40K verse, that people seem to forget. These societal rules are very important to keep in mind since they are what gives the other guys their time to shine. If an Inquisitor wheels out a Temple Assassin at a political meeting or social event the message is Death is Coming. An Inquisitorial Stormtrooper taken to the same event is going to send the message that I have power and the Stormtrooper is able to converse with people that the Inquisitor can't without raising suspicion, or causing people to run. A Temple Assassin is a death threat with a hand grenade after you pulled the pin, a Stormtrooper is a move on a regicide board. 

ItsUncertainWho said:

While we have not yet gotten there yet... My Death Cultist, is a Moritat who lives by the code..  and well has a twisted logic that he is Emperor's Scalpel, that line came from our Priest, now Witchhunter to be Inquistor.  He will serve as his Bodyguard/Living Weapon and yes bring him is like unpinned Hand Grenade.  His role is not to talk to people, just kill them, as I designed him from the get go with very limited social skills.

My point is and alsways was that DH (including ascension) and RT both would be very much better games without those unnatural traits.

And i feel that point is not actually true, but that is largely a taste thing. Personally a I find the unnatural traits one of the most intriguing parts of the system.

H2SO4 said:

Barrage combat drug from where?

Angel of Death said:

Barrage is in RT: Hostile Acquisitions, pg 66. It gives Unnatural Perception (x2), Unnatural Strength ( x2) and Unnatural Toughness (x2) for 1d5 rounds, with the side-effect of losing 1 perception, 1 strength and 1 toughness per round permanently.

So only use it on your attack-beasts to be teleported aboard enemy ship and people you don't particularly care about.

Thanks that is a book I have yet to get, it on my short list

 About Cortex Implants, it says that common quality ones give a 1d10 penalty to WS / BS / Int, but what about Good or Best Quality one ? What's the point of getting Unnatural Intelligence if you get reduced Intelligence from the Implants themselves ? It's kinda like shooting yourself in the foot.

Oh and earlier someone said he had as much as 78 Intelligence, how do you do that in RT ? Most I can see is like 70 (25 base + 20 roll + 5 background + 20 XP).

So I don't double my Successes on Int-based skills with Unnatural Int? Man, I should read up on those Unnatural stats.

Myliel said:

Good quality CIs do not reduce stats. It gives Unnatural Intelligence (x2) and the recipient gets 1d10 IPs. The WS/BS/Int modifiers only apply to normal CIs. The RAW does not say anything about Best quality, but a houserule could be to remove the added IP and even reduce the total IPs accumlated and/or Unnatural Intelligence (x3).