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Call of Cthulhu Deck Construction
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[Prodigee:
I don't play against single Syndicate. In this case, I would rather stop playin.The french meta evolved at a really fast pace, and the players I met yet are really really competitive.
Aren't those two a bit contradictory?
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Prodigee:
First, the use of polar for commiting effects is really unexpected for opponents, who must fight against this once he discover your strategy. A cool poker effect.
Let me restate: 0 polar events played: no psychological effect at all. Mono-Synd played like it hadn't opposition, going for the t 2,5 it aims to get. A good deck just doesn't care about Polars just as much it doesn't care about Conspiracies.
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[/QUOTE]
1. We have a really competitive meta in Poitiers. I'm sure of this.
We have two Syndicate players, Hastur's,3 Yog, 2 Shubb-Niggurath, .... Me and my poor english meant that I would'nt play this game anymore if I only have to face Syndicate and nothing else ... But that's not the case ! 
"I don't play against single syndicat" means in Prodigee-really-awfull-english : "I'm lucky I can face a lot of various decks with every factions represented". Just take a look at our forum, and you'll see some decks posted recently, and you'll see...
2. Your stat mentionned you did'n play Polar...Which is really possible with the use of X3, you're totally right in that. But, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! I did play it (a little) and had some cool games. I agree I'm not a tier-One Deck creator, but I think some combination were indeed usefull. Just use once the Feathery tricks with Polar Mirage and you'll see how to shake a little a rush strategy. In understand your mathematic point. But I don't agree to judge a card pool on just 1 game. And, in my mind, Syndycate is the strongest faction against this type of deck.
Please, tell me now we reach the X3-objective, which strategy is really unopposable. I don't see a lot though.
Take a loook to our French fansite
Le CENACLE (cenacle-hd.bb-fr.com/)
Carioz said:
The conditions being that "a character commits on your opponents turn" and "an opponent commits some characters, but not all characters on their turn" means that something polar is bound to happen when an opponent chooses to use their Story Phase.
Carioz said:
See the point before. Willpower Syndicate Guy generally commits to win the game, which mean you'll be exceptionally lucky most of the time against such a deck.
Carioz said:
Since you seem to loathe the Story Phase, and rather use combo decks to win, I would say that you will have a hard time enjoying these cards. This is OK, but do understand that the Story Phase and characters are supposed to be the prime win-condition of the game. Yeah, I know, some combo decks are silly good, and there is no strickt need to commit... ever... But some elements for aggro/control are put into place and well, the game is not made only for Carioz, although I know that deeply saddens you...
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
Marius:
The conditions being that "a character commits on your opponents turn" and "an opponent commits some characters, but not all characters on their turn" means that something polar is bound to happen when an opponent chooses to use their Story Phase.
See the point before. Willpower Syndicate Guy generally commits to win the game, which mean you'll be exceptionally lucky most of the time against such a deck.
Please, check both games. I did commit, but at no time the opponent had a chance to use polars. It might be the fates or just that Polar decks have such a low threat that you can commit all your guys and be affected by a smaller part of the events, and the events you can fire are so underpowered that a 1 cost 1 skill suicide blocker is often better.
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Marius:
Since you seem to loathe the Story Phase, and rather use combo decks to win, I would say that you will have a hard time enjoying these cards.
Which deck was combo? The mono Synd or the Chulhu Synd? I do not use combo decks most of the time, but I have to say, I like them, and I consider them pretty ingenious. This said I play mostly with Story phase bound decks, but take Combo into account. Since they exist, Story Phase decks need to have something against them.
As a side note I've tried building combo decks, as I really love the concept and the ingenuity, but I cannot manage to build a decent one for the life of me.
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Marius:
But some elements for aggro/control are put into place and well, the game is not made only for Carioz, although I know that deeply saddens you
Leaving the aggro/control aside (I have yet to see a control only deck, as any deck needs an "aggro" or "combo" winning condition), I'd like to see how Polars compare to control staples like:
SacOffs
Yig
DOA
Mentor
7th House
Shotgun Blast
Short Fuse
Forced Entry
Nodens
T-Men
The Great Old One Rises
Sky Torn Asunder
Forgotten Isle
Small Price to Pay
and I am probably forgetting some. The question is: would an Hastur deck work better adding 4-5 off faction control cards or adding 4-5 Polars. For what I've seen, off factions are better.
I am not really bothered that Cthulhu isn't designed just for me. I am saddened about the sad state the game is. I am bothered about people making claims (TEH POLARS ARE TEH UBAR!!!!) without having even benchmarked them agains common decks.
I am not to much pissed about underpowered sets, but it really looks lame when a developer's hypothesys (Conspiracies will revolution the game! Kitab al-Azif is a monstrous combo finisher!) all come untrue, for it means such developer has a really limited knowledge of the game. If Conspiracies were heralded as: "Introductory set, bringing a new fresh concept for fun decks" I wouldn't have had any beef with them (heck, the set has even 1 good hidden card -good on Ap 1 & 2 standard, that's it-). But constantly heralding a brand new powerful interesting game and changing the meta just by bannings or cycling is the epithome of design, not.
edit: wow, I did really mangle some english here.
The power is subtle, but it's there.
Whoooaaah! A first post on Bullshido being a reply saying you're attending a TD - respect, man!
Won some stuff...
Carioz said:
Suicide blockers don't usually draw you cards with Penguins, double as a shotgun blast with Captain, nor have an inate ability to be recurred with Real of Ice and Death.
Carioz said:
As a side note I've tried building combo decks, as I really love the concept and the ingenuity, but I cannot manage to build a decent one for the life of me.
Hmmm... Okay...
Carioz said:
SacOffs
Yig
DOA
Mentor
7th House
Shotgun Blast
Short Fuse
Forced Entry
Nodens
T-Men
The Great Old One Rises
Sky Torn Asunder
Forgotten Isle
Small Price to Pay
Which cards you mentioned are Hastur faction, and which of those cards help cancelling events? I do understand that the Polars aren't the most efficient removal cards out there, but, it's the Hastur faction, which deals mostly with triggered effects and events, not with characters directly. Your question might as well be "If DOA is so awesome, why can't it stop Historic Discovery?" - Well, that's because DOA is a Cthulhu faction card, not a Hastur faction card.
Carioz said:
Carioz said:
I am not to much pissed about underpowered sets, but it really looks lame when a developer's hypothesys (Conspiracies will revolution the game! Kitab al-Azif is a monstrous combo finisher!) all come untrue, for it means such developer has a really limited knowledge of the game. If Conspiracies were heralded as: "Introductory set, bringing a new fresh concept for fun decks" I wouldn't have had any beef with them (heck, the set has even 1 good hidden card -good on Ap 1 & 2 standard, that's it-). But constantly heralding a brand new powerful interesting game and changing the meta just by bannings or cycling is the epithome of design, not.
Conspiracies are -for the most- free effects. Yes, you do burn a card, but you'll get a free effect (destroy 2 cards, discard your opponents' hand!) for an investment of zero resources. Yes, it takes effort and 1 or 2 turns to activate it, and most certainly involves risk, but it's free, and it gives you an extra won story.
So far there have been no cycling, and just a few bannings. The rituals held the game back in ways you cannot imagine. The game is still recovering from the rituals. Their impact has been so great and warping that yes, some cards are now less powerfull then you would like them to be. The rituals, in playtest, warped the perception because noone would have liked to let the next The Rip-Off slip through.
There are a lot of factors you don't take into account: Factions, the insane powercreep of Lost Cities and Eldritch in general, the Rituals, the withering of the division of factions and well, the list goes on and on. Eric and Nate are well aware of these issues and probably working very hard to keep you happy without having to press the Great Reset Button.
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
Marius:
Suicide blockers don't usually draw you cards with Penguins, double as a shotgun blast with Captain, nor have an inate ability to be recurred with Real of Ice and Death.
Another time, just for the records: no Polar events were played in the games I've shown. One could have been, but it would have changed nothing. It is pretty difficult to trigger Penguins or Whalers when no Polars get into play.
The game is fast, faster than you may reckon, every action counts and every action and card counts: that's why Attachments, commitment tricks and Conspiracy are less than optimal. Now, if one is such a good player he can afford to play with 2-3 "dead" cards (i.e. Polars instead of removals, conspiracies instead of cards which do the same) more power to him, but I feel most of the time a always useful card is better than a may be useful if the stars are right one.
As for suicide blockers, I'd like to point out the following cards: Grey Dragon Isle, Tulzscha and any free recurring.
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Marius:
Hmmm... Okay...
No, please answer, was the Syndicate a combo deck or was it the Synicate Cthulhu?
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Marius:
Which cards you mentioned are Hastur faction, and which of those cards help cancelling events? I do understand that the Polars aren't the most efficient removal cards out there, but, it's the Hastur faction, which deals mostly with triggered effects and events, not with characters directly. Your question might as well be "If DOA is so awesome, why can't it stop Historic Discovery?" - Well, that's because DOA is a Cthulhu faction card, not a Hastur faction card.
4-5 off faction cards introduce an inconsistancy in resourcing and the ability to play these cards, where polars do not.
Because we know that you cannot absolutely mix factions in Cthulhu: none ever heard of a Cthulhu - Hastur decks. And Agency - Hastur are such a novelty - oh, wait, you just suggeted one-.
Another thing: 4-5 off faction cards means 12 - 15 exemplars, which is enoguh to balance a deck. Furthermore, if, as shown, Polars means dead cards in hand and off factions mean inconsistancy, at least I'll take the effective route.
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Marius:
Conspiracies are -for the most- free effects. Yes, you do burn a card, but you'll get a free effect (destroy 2 cards, discard your opponents' hand!) for an investment of zero resources. Yes, it takes effort and 1 or 2 turns to activate it, and most certainly involves risk, but it's free, and it gives you an extra won story.
Silly me! It's because they are so good they featured prominently in exactly 0 worlds decks. On a more serious note, any deck which can win while using a card for a Conspiracy is winning despite using it, not because it is using it: given the same price (1 card), any effect which happens right now is better than an effect that might happen in 2-3 turns.
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Marius:
There are a lot of factors you don't take into account: Factions, the insane powercreep of Lost Cities and Eldritch in general, the Rituals, the withering of the division of factions and well, the list goes on and on. Eric and Nate are well aware of these issues and probably working very hard to keep you happy without having to press the Great Reset Button.
There might be a lot of factors, but the answer is just the same, putting out narrow, poorly worded, un-efficient cards -sometimes with awful mistakes- and hope for the cheerleaders to spam enough "It is wonderful!!!". The poor fate of AGoT and the new backs all but scream "cycling". I do seriously hope Nate stays away from the Reset button (well, I arguably hope that he stays miles away from Cthulhu LCG too, but that isn't going to happen), but everything that happened so far screams:
a) FFG isn't interested in their pre-CCG player base
b) Rotation is coming.
You know what I really fear the most (and Nate pretty much has spelled it in an article)? That the game will be changed to shoehorn failed concept (i.e. Conspiracies, Attachments and commitment tricks) into prominence. Right now any decently built MonoC deck will just roll over these three concepts. But I fear cycling and bannings will bring them to prominence.
The power is subtle, but it's there.
Whoooaaah! A first post on Bullshido being a reply saying you're attending a TD - respect, man!
Won some stuff...
Carioz said:
Well, that's puzzling, really.
Carioz said:
As you claim it, the 'stars where right' a lot of times, but you didn't act on it. I know the game is fast, but you should have had some time to stabilze enough to take advantage of the situation. I really wonder what went on.
Carioz said:
GDI and Tulzscha are just as much late game cards.
Carioz said:
Well, appearantly they where as the condition "one character commits" or "some characters commit, while another didn't" didn't come up in your game at all.
Carioz said:
Another thing: 4-5 off faction cards means 12 - 15 exemplars, which is enoguh to balance a deck. Furthermore, if, as shown, Polars means dead cards in hand and off factions mean inconsistancy, at least I'll take the effective route.
Ah, you meant 12 - 15 cards, not 4 -5 cards. Well, that's a huge difference...
Carioz said:
Worlds was very combo oriented this year. Hell, Masks of Nyarlathothep is long concidered the weakest set from the CCG time, and after a looooong time people started to make broken decks with it.
Carioz said:
Well, even if you're persistant in not liking Polars, at least take a look at:
Prof. Lake, Notebook Sketches - very good anti-combo tech for Misk.
Specimen Bags - A little quirky, but with a lot of potential
Cave Mouth - Giving Cthulhu even better defenses.
Penguin - Card draw for Hastur, decent stats for a H 2 coster.
Forgotten Shoggoth - An invul chara with a subtype that gained a lot of support, with an ability that helps against some combo decks.
Reawakened Elder Thing. 2 ( ! ) investigation icons in a faction that shouldn't have access to that much investigation, with a minor drawback. Again, a Monster, which is pushed greatly in the other AP.
Antarctic Yeti. More Textbox/Willpower removal, on a monster, almost an extra copy of isle...
Snow Graves - What hasn't been said about it?
Sledge Dogs - Very efficient rushers...
I would say that is pretty awesome... But hey... I'm just a cheerleader, so, wrong.
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
Marius:
Well, that's puzzling, really.
That's not puzzling at all: Polars are situational cards at best (I'd say useless junk but that might be a little too much underappreciation). Now situational cards aren't bad per se. Most silver bullets are in fact situational. But a situational card needs to have a tangible effect, otherwise it is just a random resource. Most Polar have no tangible effects against decks which put some pressure on the player using them.
Second trouble with Polars (which can be linked to all situational cards) is that situationals need a very good drawing engine otherwise they just clutter your deck with multiples: you need to have a situational in hand for when the situation happens, but you need it to be outside your hand for it is dead weight until that situation happens. I think a polar powered Penguin engine does not cut it.
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Marius:
As you claim it, the 'stars where right' a lot of times, but you didn't act on it. I know the game is fast, but you should have had some time to stabilze enough to take advantage of the situation. I really wonder what went on.
I might have not understood very well what you meant, but if you mean the player using Polars had lots of chances to go for the (Polar) kill, the games were played like this:
Hastur VS CthulhuSynd: No chance for Polars
Hustur VS Synd: Graham could have polar fogged (or Cruel Tempted) to have me win a different 3rd Story. (i.e. It wouldn't have mattered a bit)
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Marius:
As for suicide blockers, I'd like to point out the following cards: Grey Dragon Isle, Tulzscha and any free recurring.[/quote]
GDI and Tulzscha are just as much late game cards.
Yeah, I am not contending they are good, because they are not, it is just than cycling, wounding and drawing are not confined to the Polar experience.
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Marius:
Well, appearantly they where as the condition "one character commits" or "some characters commit, while another didn't" didn't come up in your game at all.
"some characters commit, while another didn't" didn't happen.
"one character commits" did happen but, then again, Polar Fog would have not changed a thing.
Furthermore having some Polars in your deck doesn't mean you have all them in your hand, that their condition will trigger, that their effect will be beneficial or that you aren't better off using thet domain for something else.
Doing a little math: the deck had 6x3 commitment tricks on 54 cards, which gives us roughly 3,5 tricks expected at turn 3 and 4,5 at turn 4. One of those tricks could have been the 4 cost Lure neutral effect, so I am somewhat overestimating the number of playable tricks. 4,5 out of 18 possible gives us a below 1 chance of having thet right trick needed in that situation.
So, to sum it up:
1) Not every polar event was available
2) Not every domain was available
3) Not all Polar conditions were available
4) The one time there was the right trick, the domain open and the condition (ironically) the Polar event didn't matter.
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Marius:
Ah, you meant 12 - 15 cards, not 4 -5 cards. Well, that's a huge difference...
Well, at 3 copy per card you can easilly splash a control bit of cthulhu or agency in almost any deck would benefit from it.
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Marius:
Worlds was very combo oriented this year. Hell, Masks of Nyarlathothep is long concidered the weakest set from the CCG time, and after a looooong time people started to make broken decks with it.
Actually Masks was so broken that it was nerfed before it made an impact (rainbow 2).
But my previous answer was just semantics: I am waiting for a broken Conspiracy deck (of course levelling the playing field cycling out pre LCG cards is not allowed ;) )
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Marius:
One liner for one liner:
Prof. Lake, Notebook Sketches - very good anti-combo tech for Misk.
There are better options (Ironically right from Masks).
Specimen Bags - A little quirky, but with a lot of potential
Attachment = useless. Has potential as a resource.
Cave Mouth - Giving Cthulhu even better defenses.
This is a reverse Conspiracy: if more stories didn't matter, why should less? Hint: Ravager isn't undefeatable.
Penguin - Card draw for Hastur, decent stats for a H 2 coster.
A chumpblocker: really something to get excited about. But in the pile of junk AtMoM is it really shine as a good card.
Forgotten Shoggoth - An invul chara with a subtype that gained a lot of support, with an ability that helps against some combo decks.
Now, the Forgotten Shoggoth isn't bad. We are at 1/20, we just got on par with Conspiracies of Chaos.
Reawakened Elder Thing. 2 ( ! ) investigation icons in a faction that shouldn't have access to that much investigation, with a minor drawback. Again, a Monster, which is pushed greatly in the other AP.
For just 3 you can get a charactare which is vulnerable to almost any removal in existence (Except nodens) but is not west reanimable and has a drawback. Not really interesting. Just one thing: you can mix factions, to have the strength of one overcome the weakness of another. Or has Nate planned to keep factions segregated? 2/20 but I will not play it. (woooooo this ste is better than Conspiracies it must be awesome)
Antarctic Yeti. More Textbox/Willpower removal, on a monster, almost an extra copy of isle...
Except it needs Yig to commit to cancel him (yeah, right, Yig commits:D )
Snow Graves - What hasn't been said about it?
That at 3x and non searchable you need copious amount of luck to get them before a reanimator chews them. Then again one of the few cards which can shape the meta somehow: now all reanimators recyclers will pack support removals. 3/20
Sledge Dogs - Very efficient rushers...
Now, don't get head over heels because I said they could be good in a simple rush. Thay still have huge troubles performing any better than chump blockers. 4/20
Hey you forgot the obviously overpowered Barque Miskatonic. As a playtester how would you rate it?
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Marius:
I would say that is pretty awesome... But hey... I'm just a cheerleader, so, wrong.
I say 4/20 is pretty crap. And you are right, you are wrong.
The power is subtle, but it's there.
Whoooaaah! A first post on Bullshido being a reply saying you're attending a TD - respect, man!
Won some stuff...
Carioz said:
Second trouble with Polars (which can be linked to all situational cards) is that situationals need a very good drawing engine otherwise they just clutter your deck with multiples: you need to have a situational in hand for when the situation happens, but you need it to be outside your hand for it is dead weight until that situation happens. I think a polar powered Penguin engine does not cut it.
Well, one can argue that you're describing the whole Hastur faction here... All those cancels and insanity effects waiting for something that may or may not happen...
Carioz said:
Well, you get most of it a bit cheaper and more efficient now, in a faction.
Carioz said:
"one character commits" did happen but, then again, Polar Fog would have not changed a thing.
Furthermore having some Polars in your deck doesn't mean you have all them in your hand, that their condition will trigger, that their effect will be beneficial or that you aren't better off using thet domain for something else.
Doing a little math: the deck had 6x3 commitment tricks on 54 cards, which gives us roughly 3,5 tricks expected at turn 3 and 4,5 at turn 4. One of those tricks could have been the 4 cost Lure neutral effect, so I am somewhat overestimating the number of playable tricks. 4,5 out of 18 possible gives us a below 1 chance of having thet right trick needed in that situation.
So, to sum it up:
1) Not every polar event was available
2) Not every domain was available
3) Not all Polar conditions were available
4) The one time there was the right trick, the domain open and the condition (ironically) the Polar event didn't matter.
So, you played one game with a badly tuned polar deck, and you blame the mechanic! Wow...
Carioz said:
And severly reduce the chances you'll have on a 1st turn Court of Y'Till, but that's a really bad card, so anyone in their right mind would rather face a 1st turn Greg & Ghoul for example... There is always a payoff. And yes, you can splash agency, and that too makes Polar just far more effective.
Carioz said:
But my previous answer was just semantics: I am waiting for a broken Conspiracy deck (of course levelling the playing field cycling out pre LCG cards is not allowed ;) )
Well, if you measure success by introducing more broken mechanics to the game and remove interactivity, and reduce the game to a coin flip, then yes, it's a huge failure.
Carioz said:
There are better options (Ironically right from Masks).
Oh, tell me. In Miskatonic, please.
Carioz said:
That has been my gut reaction too, but it does have some potential in Run and Gun. Bureau Chief or other hard to remove characters could make it interesting...
Carioz said:
This is a reverse Conspiracy: if more stories didn't matter, why should less? Hint: Ravager isn't undefeatable.
There is more than Ravager though.
Carioz said:
Well, the game segregates the characters a little. Say you want to play Yog + another monster faction. Double investigation means it's pretty fun having among the GK crowd as well, for some serious presure...
Carioz said:
Why does Yig need to commit?
Carioz said:
So, a card is bad because you can't play more then 3, and people make their deck less consistant to get rid of it? If that is bad, I don't want to be good.
Carioz said:
I haven't even seen your opinion on them. I think they are very efficient for their cost.
Carioz said:
And yet, you can't stop reading. Good boy!
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
Marius:
Well, one can argue that you're describing the whole Hastur faction here... All those cancels and insanity effects waiting for something that may or may not happen...
Yeah, because Hastur is just insanity and cancels. Hand manipulation, discarding and that tiny little Theater must belong to a different faction.
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Marius:
Well, you get most of it a bit cheaper and more efficient now, in a faction.
Conspiracies' Conspiracies (that's funny to write) are free. And they are one for each faction. They did not impact play. None really build decks thinking: "Damn my oppo is gonna use Ritual conspiracy + Old Lazy Eyes, that's 0.52 of him having it first turn I really must take care"Even free cards, when they make no impact, are useless.
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Marius:
So, you played one game with a badly tuned polar deck, and you blame the mechanic! Wow...
Nope, I played many games with Polar cards. After figuring out they were utterly useless for me (stress on for me) I had the chance to play two games with a good player and we had the same feeling. Then we posted a review, to show why, for us, Polar have some problems, which mainly are: they are narrow, they cost a lot, and you are better off using direct shooting for removal, because that's just what they try to do, but cannot deliver.
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Marius:
And severly reduce the chances you'll have on a 1st turn Court of Y'Till, but that's a really bad card, so anyone in their right mind would rather face a 1st turn Greg & Ghoul for example...
Courting Assistant response is just asking for a disrupt and the same the following turn (or the same turn, if facing a particullary evil deck).
So you are trading away the chance to remove a Ghoul in the 3 turns it is in play for the chance of disrupting it coming into play one turn, and then eating the same t2? Not a wise choice to me.
But you are right, since the ritual/ rip-offs banning Court of Ythill has become a novelty item, at least in my meta.
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Marius:
Well, if you measure success by introducing more broken mechanics to the game and remove interactivity, and reduce the game to a coin flip, then yes, it's a huge failure.
You are right, I overestimated Conspiracies: show me a deck which can win games (I am not asking a 100%, just 33% would be enough) against archetypal decks where Conspiracies are not an hindarance.
You know Gathering at the Stones isn't broken, but very few people would put it in the same stack of useless where Conspiracies rest
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Marius:
Oh, tell me. In Miskatonic, please.
You are really fixated with factions: unless Nate rules the opposite (and frankly I could even expect it) you can mix and match. Furthermore you may want to notice there are many way to put characters into play, and hardcasting them isn't the only one. I'd even say hardcasting characters is an hindrance to get them into playwhen you need them...
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Marius:
That has been my gut reaction too, but it does have some potential in Run and Gun. Bureau Chief or other hard to remove characters could make it interesting...
So i't an attachment that fits exactly one character and yet it doesn't even do anything alone. Picture me thrilled.
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Marius:
There is more than Ravager though.
Waiting for a deck which uses the Cave meaningfully.
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Marius:
Well, the game segregates the characters a little. Say you want to play Yog + another monster faction. Double investigation means it's pretty fun having among the GK crowd as well, for some serious presure...
I'd rather say: the game, played on a really basic environment, segregates faction stregths. But that's not the point: no need to argue with me this card isn't on the same useless pile with the others I already conceded it's a step above the rest (and a step below useful).
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Marius:
Why does Yig need to commit?
Actually it doesn't. Isn't it ironic? A card which is built for blanking which cannot even choose what to blank.
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Marius:
So, a card is bad because you can't play more then 3, and people make their deck less consistant to get rid of it? If that is bad, I don't want to be good.
humm... have you missed it's on the "promoted" 4 cards group. Then again this has potential to be as good as Beneath the Mire. One of the meta shaping cards I've never seen in play.
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Marius:
I haven't even seen your opinion on them. I think they are very efficient for their cost.
I think they are efficient for their cost, useless for their effect and work only in a tier 2 at best archetype.
Check here: http://www.cthulhulcg.com/cocforums/posts/list/30/12363.page#240442 (old forum, so it might require an account)
Marius wrote:
You can't possibly know how much that pleases me. 
Ofcourse, there are some weird elements to the card. The number 8 is a weird choice. 9 would have made more sense in AP format, and especially in core format. Oh, and doggies can go insane but still count their bonus. "other cards named ASD gain..." would have been better in hindsight.
But yeah, they are 8 slots of superior combat beatings, that all Polar haters will love.
And it's great fun when a doggie dies mid-commitment and then suddenly all other doggies lose a combat. It could get messy.
It's a classic case of Brute Force and Interesting on one card.
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Marius:
And yet, you can't stop reading. Good boy!
What can I say, I love to probe the depths you are willing to go to say that Polars are TEH UBAR!!! Graham says I am a train wreck fetishist.
The power is subtle, but it's there.
Whoooaaah! A first post on Bullshido being a reply saying you're attending a TD - respect, man!
Won some stuff...
Carioz said:
Yeah, because Hastur is just insanity and cancels. Hand manipulation, discarding and that tiny little Theater must belong to a different faction.
Well, Theater is card disadvantage, so who cares :D
Carioz said:
Maybe someday you will, and still find reason to complain.
Carioz said:
So you are trading away the chance to remove a Ghoul in the 3 turns it is in play for the chance of disrupting it coming into play one turn, and then eating the same t2? Not a wise choice to me.
But you are right, since the ritual/ rip-offs banning Court of Ythill has become a novelty item, at least in my meta.
Well, the disrupt costs, you know, sacrificing a character...
Carioz said:
I could, but you would just complain. Really!
Carioz said:
Because, balancing factions is part of the game. You know, you can get away with 2, maybe three, but somewhere along the line your deck is going to suffer.
Carioz said:
Ah, good. You're thrilled. So, you can imagine some weird form of control that takes out a certain key character. Good.
Carioz said:
Well, try to break it. At least it's not a cookie-cutter "Nate wants Carioz to play this card" card. It does something different and new.
Carioz said:
Well, you'll have to explain me that one, because I have a feeling the version I saw did...
Carioz said:
Because they are, and because it's funny that you'll never get why. :D
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
Marius:
Well, Theater is card disadvantage, so who cares :D
Funny thing is even most Conspiracies are.
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Marius:
Maybe someday you will, and still find reason to complain.
I have more then one reason to believe that Current dev team is willing to go to about any low to shoehorn Conspiracies into play. Say, how many packs before a "If you play Conspiracies you cannot lose" effect?
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Marius:
Well, the disrupt costs, you know, sacrificing a character...
Ooooh, you are right, and most decks play exactly with one Assistant and one GK, so once you have stopped them T1 you have won.
It's not like one could, say, play another character to disrupt. But then again I am venturing far into theorycthulhu, which is almost the worst thing one can do.
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Marius:
I could, but you would just complain. Really!
Using existant cards? No. There is no deck where Conspiracies matter, right now. Using Conspiracies or you lose? Could be.
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Marius:
Ah, good. You're thrilled. So, you can imagine some weird form of control that takes out a certain key character. Good.
Three card for one. Uber control. And most decks have this thing called redundancy (you know, not all decks blow everything T1 in a do or die sequence). Furthermore If you can put into play instead of playing such key character, you can just ignore the super specimen bags.
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Marius:
Well, try to break it. At least it's not a cookie-cutter "Nate wants Carioz to play this card" card. It does something different and new.
Which translates into: It was useless enough that none could do anything about it.
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Marius:
Because they are, and because it's funny that you'll never get why. :D
Oh, once a Polar deck manages to do something I am more than willing to get why they are so good. So far I'll maintain a "Useless until proven otherwise" stance.
The power is subtle, but it's there.
Whoooaaah! A first post on Bullshido being a reply saying you're attending a TD - respect, man!
Won some stuff...
Personally I'd like to see a bit less fighting and more constructive critizism and ideas on the boards. For example, I'm not yet sold on the idea of polar cards, but would be glad to test my hand at them. Marius, could you post a well-thought (doesn't have to be fine-tuned, of course!) Agency-Hastur polar deck? I could then test it against a couple different decks (from all tiers). I'd really appreciate the effort.
PS. Had to post this message twice... the first just kind of fizzled.
When temptation brings me to my knees / And I lay here drained of strength / Show me kindness / Show me beauty / Show me truth
Bard said:
Personally I'd like to see a bit less fighting and more constructive critizism and ideas on the boards. For example, I'm not yet sold on the idea of polar cards, but would be glad to test my hand at them. Marius, could you post a well-thought (doesn't have to be fine-tuned, of course!) Agency-Hastur polar deck? I could then test it against a couple different decks (from all tiers). I'd really appreciate the effort.
PS. Had to post this message twice... the first just kind of fizzled.
I don't have a finished deck ATM, but I'm thinking somewhere along the lines of using the Captain, Mr. Grey and Realm as a sort of engine to keep the wounds flying with White Out (win most strugles on defense) and Antarctic Wind, backed up with Agency gunfire.
I've found that Sharpshooter is fine, but often has problems targeting things. Combined with the built in Polar recursion effects and card draw, plus the possible extra wounding, the idea is to keep drawing your shotgun blasts and other wounding effects with the penguins. Another advantage over a straight agency deck is the access to cancels here and there, to get rid of dangerous triggered effects; Your opponents removal for instance, as well as nasty card combo's. I know that control is fighting an uphill battle, but both Agency and Hastur have a few good weenies, so with both it should be possible to get set up a defense, then built momentum to break through, while disrupting your opponents progress.
That the Starres eat...that those falling Starres, as some call them, which are found on the earth in the form of a trembling gelly, are their excrement.
- Henry More, 1656
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