I don't really see the point of Dark Relic in RtL anyway. The only time it's remotely useful is if you can get it off late in the final dungeon, as otherwise they'll just send someone to town to buy the item that gets rid of it. Even if they kill the hero, it's only 1-5 CT for you, which isn't a game ender like it is in a vanilla game.

I guess you could extend the influence of the dark relic in the advanced campaign by house-ruling that after each death instance of the affected hero, he may  roll a power die, and only discard the cursed item on say, a surge. Still, there's the quick cure option via the remove curse shop item, which should've been more expensive, in my opinion.

So if dark relics can be from shop items, does that mean that in RtL if the party bought the Enchanted boat while in the dungeon doing a restock that the boat could really be a dark relic, making the heroes waste a lot of gold(oh yes Nanok, just put these boots on and click your heels together 3 times to summon the boat)?

I think the overlord cannot use his deck outside of dungeons(save for lieutenant encounters in Road to Legend), so he can't "land"  the dark relic on the restocking hero.

Additionally,  the enchanted boat is a collective possession(party upgrade), so there's no way to determine the dark relic's  target.

Dark Relic is played when a hero receives a treasure.  As written, that might include treasures purchased from the shop, but normal shop items like axes and chainmail are not treasures, they're just items.  I'm not sure about party upgrades, but I'd be rather surprised if they were treasures.

Also, heroes in town are immune to all overlord cards (at least in vanilla).  So you'd need to have some sort of abililty to shop without being in town.

FAQ pg 11

Q:Can this card be played when a hero receives a treasure card via trade, or only when a new card is drawn from the deck?
A: No. This card may only be played when a hero receives a treasure card drawn from the deck.

So, sorry, no playing it when they purchase something from town. Or even when trading. The question does kind of lead the answer, but I'm inclined to agree with it anyway.

For RtL and SoB:

This is one of those cards that hits the heros pocket book better than any other card. Crushing Blow can just get rid of something, but this can do that too. Granted, with my way of doing handling the card, the heros get some control over it.

Lodestone can get rid of multiple items and potions in a heros pack and possibly an other item. In addition, they would have to either wait for the hero to die or pay 500 coins to remove it. All those items removed is money the heros won't get.

Giving Black Ring will make somebody ineffective. Especially against any upgraded monsters.

Glass Armor is basically a free kill on anyone. It is worth the cost to get that. Especially if you do it consistently.

Boots of Iron isn't as useful because of the small map sizes. It would make it so that somebody probably couldn't get away or battle a lieutenant if he had it during an outdoor encounter.

Sunder the Grave isn't useful if the heros get to decide who gets it. They'll almost invariably put it on the runner; who doesn't attack much anyway. If you play so the Overlord chooses, put it on a hero with AoE attacks. It's nullifies 1/3 of the damage he can deal.

All of them can force the heros to something they might rather keep anyway. That's at least one item they can't sell. Most campaigns I've been in, the heros have had extra XP and not enough money to spend. Lowering their income and savings can hinder them very, very effectively. They can't get as much training as they would want. The Overlord may just need to play the card during most dungeons.

Also, do people agree with my take on how to handle Bardic Lore and RtL SoB with Dark Relic or am I alone there?

Solairflaire said:

Buying a treasure from the shop involves drawing a new card from the deck...

Antistone said:

Err... Yes, Yes it does in vanilla. I'm used to RtL where the cards are drawn because someone entered the market. Not because a hero bought it.

I've been looking and have found nothing in the rules or FAQ .pdfs stating that the Overlord can't play a card on a hero in town. I have the updated rulebook so I'll check there after work. I could swear I've read it somewhere. Maybe it's in the GLoAQ somewhere.

Page 18 of the basic rulebook, under "The Town":

"Note: All heroes in the town are considered adjacent to each other and cannot be targeted by overlord cards."

It's the same in the PDF and my printed copy.  It's a very easy rule to miss, though.

But is the hero the target of the Dark Relic card, or is the treasure the target of the card? The overlord plays the card "when a hero receives a treasure card", but the card doesn't explicitly target the hero. And it doesn't affect the hero directly in any way; it affects the treasure directly.

mahkra said:

"Play this card when a hero receives a treasure card. The hero must roll a power die. If the result is a blank, nothing happens.

If the result is not a blank, he receives a Dark Relic of your choice instead of the treasure card. The threat cost for this card is 4 if the treasure card was copper, 8 if it was silver, and 12 if it was gold. In addition, you must pay the threat cost of the dark relic you choose to give to the hero."

The card explicitly spells out multiple effects on the hero and says nothing explicit about what happens to the treasure card (it doesn't even tell us whether it is not drawn, discarded, or shuffled back into the deck).  It would be possible to describe the card's result in terms of changes to the treasure, but that's not how the card actually describes itself.  I don't see how one could argue that the hero is not the target.

Plus, considering the general level of rigor of the Descent rules, I cannot imagine that the writers actually intended us to read such a subtle distinction into such an off-hand remark.

Antistone said:

I knew my memory wasn't faulty. You'd think that would have a separate bullet point. It seems awfully important to put as a side note.

mahkra said:

Trap Chest cards all say: Play this card when a hero opens a chest.

Trap Space cards all say: Play this card when a hero moves into an empty space. (Crushing Blocks adds a some more conditions)

Trap Door cards all say: Play this card when a hero opens a door.

By using the same reasoning, it's possible to say that no trap card (except maybe Dark Charm) ever targets a hero. This would make the Disarm feat useless as it specifically states: Play when the overlord plays a trap card on you or any friendly figure within 3 spaces of you. 

I agree with Antistone. Taking Descent's rules and trying to nit pick them only leads to a recipe of disaster.

<shrug>

I'm just trying to provoke discussion here, rather than accepting everything as true without considering what the alternatives may be.

 "target" is simply not defined anywhere- one has to make a slightly subjective judgement. Personally, I think Dark Relic should be considered to target a hero for the purposes of cards and rules which use the word.