Character concept aside, even if I had him minted as an Academy officer or similar, my point is still that the Leadership skill really doesn't do much leadership things. Or at the very least it does a poor job of explaining how it can be used for other "leadership" things than swaying a subject, using advantages to sway bystanders and triumphs to win an ally. Commanding a squad seems to have no real guidelines, even. Only stating that highly trained soldiers or people you know are easier to coordinate, etc.

But considering character concept, then no, he doesn't inspire much confidence or respect in his allies with his rhetorics and good education. That has to do a little bit with a shoot first, don't bother to ask questions later, play style by some of the group, though. Which is also why I quite stubbornly would like to stick with my mainly non-combatant focus and rather work with the situation at hand. He is forced into combat situations quite often, though, so the natural step up would be to make him more combat worthy. But not yet. Therefore I'm looking for ways to be of use other than taking cover and giving out an assist to whoever else is smart enough to take cover. The idea is that, albeit him not being the one shooting at the front lines, he still is at the front lines, so to speak. Him taking cover and getting an overview of the situation and surveying that information to the others is what I want represented through the Leadership skill. So no, he's no hardened veteran or soldier, but he knows what he's doing and tries to advocate smart courses of action.

mouthymerc said:

Well, I did simply put on a combat edge with the already written rules for Leadership. After all, if you can't use it for coordinating people, what can you use it for? But I can see the point. Though I reckon my example would perhaps even be three talents: Guidance, Improved Guidance and Superior Guidance, or something… 

I don't think it would have to be a talent, though. Triumph effects aside, would really handing out a boost die to one or more allies be overpowered? Otherwise there are no practical leadership aspect to the leadership skill. You can rally allies under fear and sway crowds. 

I do buy the characters with Talents are more talented thinking, it's only natural given they call Talents talents… But I still feel the Leadership skill in itself falls a little short on what you can expect to get done with it alone. As mentioned earlier, Coerce could produce strain on its own as written, for instance, and say Computers and Athletics would be no different to use in or out of combat, but leading people with Leadership in combat gives you nothing unless you buy extra skills and talents? Thus, I wanted to figure out something viable to suggest for the GM.

Northman said:

Unless I have missed something, Coerce only inflicts Strain if used in conjunction with the Scathing Tirade talent. Most skills, unless used in conjunction with a talent, have little impact in combat. Someone can use Athletics to jump around or Computer to activate a terminal, but neither affects an opponent or ally directly for the most part, there may be exceptions. Leadership, too, follows this path. If you want to use it in combat pick up Inspiring Rhetoric, Field Commander, and/or Command to showcase that you are a leader. A simple skill check shouldn't grant an ability which amounts to a talent. If so anyone can do it since all skills can be used with just attribute dice. I could easily see a talent like what you propose or along those lines, like say one that allows someone to use the Assist maneuver at range (the initial talent extending it to close range with additionally taking it to extend the range to medium and long) with a Leadership test to affect more than one person.

Now all that being said, there is nothing to say you can not make a Leadership skill check as your action in a round instead of shooting a blaster. Without a talent it may not do much, but you can still use any advantages in order to grant boost dice. Now I may be wrong and we may see skills having more use in combat in the future, but I think that for the most part it will be talents that will expand their use there.

It says "Extra successes may be used to inflict strain upon the target at a rate of one strain per two extra successes" meaning you could coerce and threaten in combat. "See what my friends can do to you," or "The next one going down is you!" etc.. Scathing Tirade would be much more effective, though, having a fixed difficulty (not opposed) and inflicting strain at a much higher rate, but the basic Coerce skill allows for it. The basic Leadership skill does nothing.

So while I see the design decision about talents and for the most part agree, I'm not completely sold on the fact that a trained leader would have to buy a lot of talents in order to lead. Why isn't his training enough by itself? Being one of two, maybe three (Coerce and Deceit) social skills it would be natural to use in combat, it comes up short in itself. Although, yes, I reckon generating advantages would be a natural way of representing leadership. Still, what do you do with successes? Count them as advantages?

Ah I missed that part of Coerce. Thanks.

Well you could look at it like this, Leadership is the theory of the skill and the talents are the practical applications of that skill. Just because you have the presence to be able to lead doesn't mean that you have the ability to apply that skill. I think that Leadership and the use of tactics is a lot more complicated than just a skill, but YMMV.

I don't see the devs allowing a Leadership roll to give out boost dice or upgrades as part of the skill, but how about this? Much like Coerce can be used to inflict Strain at a much reduced rate barring Scathing Tirade, how about Leadership rallying the troops like Inspiring Rhetoric but at a reduced rate? For every two successes an ally can recover 1 strain. That would allow for you to help allies in combat with a Leadership roll and you can still use the advantages to assist too.

How's that?

mouthymerc said:

That would in fact be a very simple fix :)