MouthyMerc (good choice)

I did not say they got everything wrong… where did I say that… That list was inclusive… not what FFG left out. It was things that should be there… Of which they got A LOT RIGHT! Remeber my 95% statement?

1) I personally like the Rebellion Era

2) I do not play Jedi (I think of them in "real" terms like Catholic Priests)

3) I personally find FFG system "REALLY DAMN COOL!!!" (as expressed to our groups other GM)

4) I WANT THIS GAME TO DO WELL!

My statements here have more to do with "sound business" descisions then "personal preference"… Besides… If provided a more "complete" Star Wars experience, I can fit things to my "personal preference"…

If you do not see the simple point about a more "neutral and inclusive" Star Wars RPG to start would be a good thing from a business stand point, well then I guess we can agree to disgree… But that is how you bring in more people is by not making thier choices for them…

LucianZenlav said:

Thanks.

The only thing missing are full on Force using specializations. I don't think leaving them out will be that much of a deciding factor on whether the game does well. WotC included them in both iterations and still couldn't get their game to fly. I think it will depend more on how enjoyable the game is to play. So, yeah, we can agree to disagree. :)

Not get their game to fly… First people come here and talk about WEG's 12 years like it was meaningful (yet I have never personally met anyone who played)… WotC did it for 10… Of which you do not do something for 10 years that "did not fly"…

C'mon Merc at that point… Be real for second… That IS overstating things…

My point is NOT "WHAT" they left out… but that "WHAT" they left out created an incomplete version of Star Wars… Meaning… To get a complete version… I have to buy more books… Even WotC gave me the choice to avoid that…

If you are fine with having to purchase hundreds of $$$ in game books every year or two… Cool… Your a gamer… That is what we do… But to bring more gamers to the table… That takes a book like WotC's first (which my group personally started at 3 members and came to include almost 20… all for a good while off 1 book alone… a book that ALL of them bought! Of those 20… 15 had never gamed!!!)

When more gamers come to sit at our tables… we all win…

If your a new gamer… You want to play a Jedi… It is most often what brought you to the universe… Why shut them out right off the bat? Then those potential players feel "let down" and less likely to come to the next session…

After 35 years of playing and GM'ing all the way back to the 3 "little white D&D books" (where halflings were still hobbits)… This fact has been a cosistant. When you get too much of your game in their fantasy… They don't come back… Players need a reason to play… When you tell them "NO… You cannot do that…" They lose interest… and that is even over unreasonble requests ("can I be a Sith Lord?!")… When you start to limit things that seem within reason or are halmarks of a setting… Players really begin to fade out… (even the best of them…)

One main book… One handing of $$ to store… Play most any Star Wars environment… That will bring people to the system. It feels more safe for the casual… It is simple… Most people like that… "You mean all I need to buy is one book… I always thought RPG's needed hundreds of $$ in books" my new gamers would say over a Saga Edition game… "Nope… Not here… One book…"

The next game session so many players whiped out the copies of the Saga Core… I almost got teary…

These are not simple stories though… And getting 15+ non-gamers to show up every week to become gamers… Was not trivial… The simplicity of getting into that game… was not trivial either… It was vital…

One book… One price… The entry point… It should open possibilities… not close them…

"But I, being poor, have but my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet… tread softly because you tread on my dreams"

-Yates-

(I think this sums it up)

Man, who could have predicted people might want to play Jedi in a Star Wars game?

No point was missed. I guess I'm not a purist and fundamentalist when it comes to the "all inclusiveness" that you espout.

Nor do I agree with your definition of Star Wars and what you have convinced yourself is a good business model.

Futhermore, the point of a company is to produce something to earn money, no money, no production. To wave the capitalist-card just because you don't like to spend you money on stuff is … pointless and irrelevant really. Of course they're following a model where they have to produce more and make more stuff - it makes sense, you earn money that way. Also, they don't have to revise the game every 5th year this way. Stop moaning and consume damn it!

You have never met anyone that has played the d6 version? Well, then there's perhaps not a big rpg community where you live, and/or a young rpg community that came to rpgs about 12-13 years ago; thats "n00b" - or whatever preadolescents call it these days. It's like "there was no rpgs before D&D 3rd edition, before WotC came and raped the industry with their shiny pages of art and less than useless system" … or something.

I see your point of inclusiveness, but to fair, its a pointless gesture and thing to moan about. They've made the game, much of what you desire is already in the beta - so I assume you haven't read through the book? The Jediness well… moan all you want, the book is on its way - who knows, perhaps there's more in it than the beta book? Cross your tentacles kids! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! There's nothing to be done, the Old Ones are already here, whispering in our minds: "consume, consume!"

At this point, I'm wondering if the moderators should just lock this thread and put a forum-wide ban on restarting these kinds of threads due to their habit of devolving into a mess of pointless, petty bickering.  Especially as it appears a lot of the civility on both sides has gone out the window.

It'd probably be less work to just let people play Jedi. Then everyone could stop having to explain why you can't.

ErikB said:

Even less work to put up a sticky thread saying "No, you can't play actual Jedi in EotE, and here's why."

It's a design choice, albiet one that's not very popular one, but if you're really that upset about it… then don't buy the game.  Your wallet's going to speak a hell of a lot louder than an easily ignored post on a message board that most of the developers don't even bother to look at.

Donovan Morningfire said:

If it is not popular why stick to it? Stubborness? 

ErikB said:

Its quite clear the designers have a theme in mind for the rules at the moment, and I give them props for sticking to their guns and putting out the game they want to give us. They will give everyone what they want, but it will take time.

Maybe there is no Jedi in the book because they want to test it a bit more and perfect it so it doesn't break the game or make anyone who plays a Jedi the powerhouse of the group so all others look like a waste of time to play.

Like I said previously, you want a Jedi, HOUSE RULE it.

The basics are there, you need to connect the dots, and hey, maybe if you do a great job of doing it, share it with others. FFG might even see it and use it to help their direction of where to take the Jedi. If anything else, you've made a playable Jedi for your game, its fun, and it works until the book finally comes out.

I've been jotting down ideas for a Jedi and trying to connect the dots as I read and listen to Order 66, so its only a matter of time before I will have a solid Jedi type for my games for players.