Darian Ocana said:

i don't think canon has much point to an RPG unless players are doing a reenactment of the movies. Cosplay? No ones game is going to be canon. I agree with the pro Jedi crowd on here. Let us tell our story. Powerful Jedi knights, ship battles, wookies, bikinis..wookies in bikinis whatever. But what is up with telling us that Star Wars in only the episode 4 movie and only the original trilogy. That's bogus. 

Dance Commander said:

i don't think I could say it better!  Yeah, I always thought the scenes in the movie where queen panda..something was shooting at droids was much more fun than lightsaber battles. Keep that awesome jedi stuff out of my game. 

Donovan Morningfire said:

Then the prequel films went and spoilt it. I have personally deleted those films, and their presentation of Jedi, from my personal canon of Star Wars. Jedi cannot stand in front of hordes of guys and deflect their blaster fire pretty much unthreatened.

So do you actually want to play a disappointing Jedi, or just prevent other people from having fun playing the Jedi they envisage? 

ErikB said:

I think this speaks to the heart of the problem with your argument:  You think Jedi balanced to be as capable as character with a similar level of experience is the same as 'disappointing Jedi'.

There's inherent problem with making Jedi more powerful than similarly experienced characters:

• If the Jedi is much more powerful than the rest of the characters, and the GM scales the encounter to challenge the other characters, the Jedi's player is left with little to no challenge.  Without challenge, the player does not actually experience EotE as a game*.

• If the Jedi is much more powerful than the rest of the characters, and the GM scales the encounter to challenge the Jedi, the other players are left ineffectual.  Without the ability to affect the outcome or achieve goals, the other players don't have an interactive experience, and therefore don't experience EotE as a game*.

LethalDose said:

I see it more as people trying to insist no one anywhere makes superman comics because they like cops and robbers.

I don't have much sympathy for that kind of thinking.

I really don't see any good will ever come of trying to have mixed parties. No one will get what they want. Let the Jedi be Jedi, and play a Zack Snyder version of 7 Samurai with Jedi, and the smugglers be smugglers, and play Boardwalk Empire in space and we will get along better.

Totally agree with Lethal Dose. If one player breaks the game, it breaks the game for all players. I've seen this happen in too many groups to think it is merely a therotical concept. 

Side note, has anyone calculated how long it would take to go through the entire force exile tree and upgrade the force powers entirely using the recommended XP values, based on playing once per week or once every two weeks?

Is it possible that people won't be "waiting to play Jedi for two years," but will actually be building up to playing them?

Also, no one is saying you can't play Jedi or have superman comics or whatever. There are numerous Star Wars RPGs out there that have Jedi. Or heck, go play the Jedi hack for Dogs in the Vineyard and do all the awesome Jedi stuff you could ever want. 

cparadis said:

Sure, it just also applies when some selfish shit tries to impede everyone from playing a superhero game so they can play a smuggler.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Okay, seriously, I acknowledge that I've bring up my credentials in these discussions, but I do it when I need to put statements or view points into perspective.

But this?  If you're name doesn't appear in the credits of the corebook, you are/were in-all-caps-NOT one of the "Saga Edition developers".  

If the real devs credited you for "Additional Design" in a splat book or two late in the life of the game, I can't see how you can claim to so much more insight to the fundamental system design decisions that went into make the game as to invalidate other people opinions about it.

Call this post antagonistic.  Call me antagonistic.  Fine.  But at least it's honest.

-WJL

ErikB said:

Oh look, we're getting differnet books that do just that. They're just doing it out of order as opposed to what you want. And I don't want to be rude, but given that at the end of the day all 3 books will exist, what does it matter the order that they go in? Sure one decision might be "better" or more fun than another, but the books are going to exist so what exactly is the issue?

That said though, all of these games are going to operate off the same core system, which is fine, it should scale well enough to cover either angle of it. And because they're the same system, characters could participate in either game. Just realize that in the Jedi game, non-jedi characters are all going to be the Boba Fetts, the Wedge Antilles, the Crix Madines of the galaxy.

ErikB said:

Um, what? Seriously, did that just happen?

Oh yeah, that just happened, and hopefully we finally see how stupid this argument actually is.  His comment immeadiately prior is also quite telling:

ErikB said:

First, he's acting as if we're stopping him from playing some games where he can be a Jedi ("no one can make superman comics"), like every other Star Wars RPG ever, in addition to every "setting-free" out there.  Or maybe he thinks Force and Destiny is already done, and we're telling him he can't have it.

Second, it's pretty clear he's totally on board with separate games for separate aspects of the "Star Wars Experience" ("I really don't see any good will ever come of trying to have mixed parties", & the it-goes-both-ways argument above), he's just pissing and moaning that the one he wanted wasn't the first one to come out and now he has to wait and pout.

Frankly, I don't have much sympathy for that kind of thinking.

-WJL

PS He also completely neglected to address the point that some people (who aren't masochists, btw) enjoy the lower powered, still-kind-of-human Jedi, like Luke for most of the OT.

KommissarK said:

Sure, but two and a half years seems an awfully long time to wait. Why don't we bring it forwards.

I mean, no one cares what other people do in their games right? So there is no real reason to put it off any longer.

ErikB said:

Except for the whole project management/game development thing. They'd have to put all the time and money they have already invested in development and writing for Rebellion game to the side and start putting money into an entirely new project. Suddenly the EotE revenue stream has to support not only develoment of the Jedi book, but also the existing obligations on the work done for the Rebellion one. 

Books like this for an expensive IP take a lot of time and money to produce, and FFG doesn't have limitless resources to completely scrap a plan like this midway through production, all to quiet some internet griping.

But in principal, if a way could be found to get Jedi rules in to the hands of those that want them on an advanced time scale, people would have no objection to it?