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Corradus said:
Yeah….see, the 800lb gorilla in the room is the fact that George Lucas can't direct for beans and his writing's not that much better. The three big reasons Episodes IV-VI did so well is (1) Audiences hadn't seen anything like Star Wars in movie theaters for almost thirty years, (2) Lucas lucked out on some very talented actors who could carry his derivative and hyper-simplistic story forward in a way that wouldn't bore the audience to death and (3) The Special Effects.
One of the BIGGEST indicators of this IMO is how the Jedi got treated in Episode III. Because the movie was rushed and because a lot of the acting was so bad, it told its story poorly. You felt like things were happening all of a sudden because there was no ramp-up to it. General Order 66 was a plot device pulled literally from nowhere as if by magic - making a case for its legitimacy is pretty hard in the first place, but once it's enacted, we understand that it's just a pretext to sweep all the Jedi aside in a ham-fisted manner. So, quite literally, for the "Nth" time, Lucas screws himself by making these powerful beings suddenly pushovers. Now, doubtless, arguments can be made as to why so many Jedi were taken by surprise - they trusted, even loved their Clones, they never in a million years thought their Clones would turn on them. They were weary from three years of almost endless fighting and their ability to use certain aspects of the Force (such as the precognition) was compromised. Not all Jedi were as good in a fight, and many found themselves commanding Clones even though they weren't up to the task (the Force doesn't make all Jedi equal - the fans do). But the long and the short of it is that Episode III was a more complex story that wasn't told in a more complex way than Episodes Iv-VI. The'77-'82 movies were basically built on the template of the Buck Rogers Weekly Serial, and it worked because the story was simple and had about half a dozen major plot points - if that - stretched across a trilogy of movies. Episode I was a SLIGHT bit more complicated but very much like Episode IV, but Episodes II and III had plots that should have been a great deal more complex - except they too were shoe-horned into the Buck Rogers Weekly Serial motif - a poor fit.
So, in closing, the Jedi weren't Bad-Ass in the movies because they were jerked around by the guy who created them but who wasn't clever enough to properly make use of them and certainly wasn't clever enough (nor had he time enough) to make their demise convincing.
It's amazing how many points of conflict in the Lucas Universe can be solved if we simply remember that Lucas is a bad director, a bad writer, a clever copycat (which in fairness can be said about many directors) and quite likely the fans have made better use of his own universe than he has.
That's very true. I agree completely. Lucas needs to f'ing retire and let someone else take over: someone who cares and who knows what they're doing. But that's a different subject for a different forum.
But it still supports the main thing I was attempting to convey, that jedi can still be treated in a balanced manner: you just have to know how to do it. It doesn't require a 3-book lead-up; I can foresee them shoehorning all the classes whenever they get there as: in order to balance out the power level of force-users/Jedi vs. everyone else is to suggest that all classes have some force-influence regardless of class or group niche, it's just that jedi use it for everything or something like that and really focus it. However they do it, It's just cheeky and feels like a major let-down that FF chose to start a Star Wars game out like this.
Without Signature
Boy, this isn't really about dice anymore, is it? 
TheSMUSpaz said:
Boy, this isn't really about dice anymore, is it?
Nope. But it's kinda like a train wreck. You know it's horrible, but you just can't stop yourself from watching 
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
And the beauty of it all is, there is no actual news on the dice. Guys, stop hi-jacking. If you have nothing to add re the actual thread, take the fight outside.
Bump!!
Is there anything new on dice? Because stickers aren't the greatest on sticking to my dice.
Gurby said:
Is there anything new on dice? Because stickers aren't the greatest on sticking to my dice.
Given how far out FFG announces their products (two to three months at least), the fact there hasn't been any news on the separate sets of physical dice is itself news, as in "they ain't coming any time soon" variety.
There's a thread in the General Discussion sub-forum remarking about "fiddly bits" and lack thereof in contrast to WFRP3e, and FFG_Sam_Stewart posted that the Edge of the Empire mainbook would be a hardcover and with the dice packs sold separately.
I'd call that a pretty strong indicator that the dice won't be for sale until the finalized book is released.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Yeah….see, the 800lb gorilla in the room is the fact that George Lucas can't direct for beans and his writing's not that much better. The three big reasons Episodes IV-VI did so well is (1) Audiences hadn't seen anything like Star Wars in movie theaters for almost thirty years, (2) Lucas lucked out on some very talented actors who could carry his derivative and hyper-simplistic story forward in a way that wouldn't bore the audience to death and (3) The Special Effects.
4) Lucas neither wrote the screenplays for, nor directed, episodes V and VI.
Venthrac said:
4) Lucas neither wrote the screenplays for, nor directed, episodes V and VI.
He however DID direct Episodes I, II and III, not to mention providing the story for all six movies so, I think my remarks are still valid on their face.
Without Signature
Armenius Orson Carrick said:
And the beauty of it all is, there is no actual news on the dice. Guys, stop hi-jacking. If you have nothing to add re the actual thread, take the fight outside.
You have both an interesting definition of what constitutes a "fight" and an equally intriguing belief that I will take orders from you. Fascinating.
Without Signature
Corradus said:
You have both an interesting definition of what constitutes a "fight" and an equally intriguing belief that I will take orders from you. Fascinating.
If nothing else, they can report you to the moderators if things get too belligerent, so keep that in mind as well.
I'm not the biggest fan of Lucas' directing ability (or lack thereof) by any stretch, but he's got a valid point that such a discussion as zero relation to when FFG will be producing physical dice. One poster (AluminumWolf) already got the boot for constantly dragging threads into off-topic and inflammatory topics.
Contributing Author of the GSA at http://gsa.thegamernation.org/
"If you've never seen an elephant ski, then you've never done acid."
- Eddie Izzard
Donovan Morningfire said:
Corradus said:
You have both an interesting definition of what constitutes a "fight" and an equally intriguing belief that I will take orders from you. Fascinating.
If nothing else, they can report you to the moderators if things get too belligerent, so keep that in mind as well.
I'm not the biggest fan of Lucas' directing ability (or lack thereof) by any stretch, but he's got a valid point that such a discussion as zero relation to when FFG will be producing physical dice. One poster (AluminumWolf) already got the boot for constantly dragging threads into off-topic and inflammatory topics.
I was wondering what happened there.
Anyway, I'd expect the Beginner's box to be the first chance anyone has to get physical dice. It's been listed as "at the printers" almost 4 weeks now and slated for a Q4 2012 release, so it should be heading to warehouses soon-ish. After that, physical dice should be available "early 2013" with the core book.
-WJL
"All models are wrong, but some models are useful."
-George E.P. Box, Ph.D.
"It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simpleas few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience."
Albert Einstein, Ph.D.
Oh, is the core book no longer Q4 2012? I guess that would be unrealistic at this point. I mean, the game has changed a great deal these past few weeks. Although I have to wonder, if the Beginner's Box is at the printer, are all of the changes that we're seeing here making it into that product? I would assume so, since they can print the maps, tokens boxes and such.
I wonder if we'll hit a cutoff point soon where no more design changes will be made, and the Beginner Box books will be finalized and then printed. I feel like we have to be coming up on that.
Either way, I will still pick one up to get those dice and other goodies.
Venthrac said:
Oh, is the core book no longer Q4 2012? I guess that would be unrealistic at this point. I mean, the game has changed a great deal these past few weeks. Although I have to wonder, if the Beginner's Box is at the printer, are all of the changes that we're seeing here making it into that product? I would assume so, since they can print the maps, tokens boxes and such.
I wonder if we'll hit a cutoff point soon where no more design changes will be made, and the Beginner Box books will be finalized and then printed. I feel like we have to be coming up on that.
Either way, I will still pick one up to get those dice and other goodies.
I'm sorry, maybe I missed something. When was the core book for EotE ever a Q4 2012 release? GenCon In-flight report said "early 2013", and I was unaware this had ever changed.
I've heard second-hand from other posters there has been announced a 1.Dec cut-off for beta feedback.
-WJL
"All models are wrong, but some models are useful."
-George E.P. Box, Ph.D.
"It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simpleas few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience."
Albert Einstein, Ph.D.
LethalDose said:
Venthrac said:
Oh, is the core book no longer Q4 2012? I guess that would be unrealistic at this point. I mean, the game has changed a great deal these past few weeks. Although I have to wonder, if the Beginner's Box is at the printer, are all of the changes that we're seeing here making it into that product? I would assume so, since they can print the maps, tokens boxes and such.
I wonder if we'll hit a cutoff point soon where no more design changes will be made, and the Beginner Box books will be finalized and then printed. I feel like we have to be coming up on that.
Either way, I will still pick one up to get those dice and other goodies.
I'm sorry, maybe I missed something. When was the core book for EotE ever a Q4 2012 release? GenCon In-flight report said "early 2013", and I was unaware this had ever changed.
I've heard second-hand from other posters there has been announced a 1.Dec cut-off for beta feedback.
-WJL
Deadline is provided here.
I feel like it should also be mentioned that the lead dev, Jay Little, stated the game will be in beta (~12:20) for "as long as the beta needs" to produce a quality game. I guess our answer is the beta needs until 1.Dec to make the system "rock solid"…
-WJL
"All models are wrong, but some models are useful."
-George E.P. Box, Ph.D.
"It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simpleas few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience."
Albert Einstein, Ph.D.
I thought I had read somewhere that the Core Rulebook was a Q4 2012 thing, but I might well be thinking of the Beginner Box instead. That's probably the case, now that I reflect further on it.
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