Lynata said:

You mention the Grey Knights, yet they possess a full range of armour and starship assets as well. The Grey Knights operate in small groups, or even as individuals as the situation requires, yet possess the strength to deploy in serious force when absolutely necessary. The Modus Operandi is essentially the same.

What differs is that the Grey Knights have a central base of operations (their fortress on Titan), while the Deathwatch are dispersed across key locations across the Imperium.

As for requisition - even a frigate-sized starship contains ample room to transport  potentially a regiment of warriors - Astartes Rapid Strike Vessels, indeed all Astartes vessels in common service, carry far fewer soldiers than their size would dictate. Carrying a few bikes, tanks and/or shuttles in storage alongside a handful of warriors as required by the mission is well within the realms of possibility.

Yes, it's a matter of personal preference in interpretations… but I don't regard the two interpretations as being particularly different except in terms of the breadth of focus. The original depiction was a glimpse into the organisation… one that has been subsequently expanded upon and developed.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yet not as extensively. Where are their Whirlwinds, for example?

The Grey Knights have specialised anti-daemon infantry, but for ordinary engagements they are notably more ill equipped than a regular Space Marine Chapter. This version of the Deathwatch, on the other hand, truly owns the full range of armour and starship assets - and given their operational distribution of basically covering all Imperial space and beyond … wow, how many Deathwatch Strike Cruisers and Battle Barges must there be? How many Kill-Ships?

N0-1_H3r3 said:

So you are basically saying that there is a fleet of starships out there transporting small 5-man squads through the galaxy, but each of these ships also contains a host of Landraiders, Whirlwind artillery tanks, Predators, Rhinos, etc just in case these teams need them.

Well, I suppose that is at least more feasible than assuming that they would be stored on every outpost.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I wouldn't call such a crass deviation an expansion. From what I can see, it is simply a very different take on the subject (and in this, it is just one of many examples of this RPG), for reasons mentioned in the previous posts: size, affiliation, rank structure, armoury … it's all quite unlike what we have seen before, so we may just as well acknowledge it for what it is. There's nothing wrong with liking/preferring it, I just cannot agree that it was merely "more developed".

That being said, I'm sure the number of Deathwatch players who are actually aware of the CA article or the Index Astartes or the Inquisitor RPG is very, very small. Just like with most other deviations, I do not think a whole lot of people will actually notice. As evidenced in this very thread.

Lynata said:

Lynata said:

And even if they have Battle Barges (not in my games they don't) and Strike Cruisers, Space Marines also make use of destroyer and frigate sized Rapid Strike Vessels, which are small (at least by Imperial standards, the smallest is around 1'5km long) and swift fast-respose vessels.

And the Deathwatch doesn't necessarily have to use their own ships all the time. In the adventure "The Price of Hubris" from the book The Emperor Protects, the kill-team is ferried to their destination aboard the ship of a Rogue Trader.

Lynata said:

The differences are indeed there, but apart of the Deathwatch deciding to 'just be friends' with the Inquisition I don't think the other differences are so crass.

Dammit, the forum completely messed up my reply. The last paragraph in each quote is actually the first paragraph of my responses.

I must have offended the forum's Machine Spirit 

To be fair, I also wouldn't agree with the Custodes thing, though that is admittedly just a matter of gut-feeling, as we indeed have next to no information about them other than knowing their job.

Anyways, I think we're pretty much done here. We all have our interpretations, some formed more by GW fluff, others more from various licensed products, and yet others go a whole different route incorporating their own ideas. I didn't even want to go into that much detail regarding the Deathwatch (to my own personal interests there are some other, more pressing differences), but the discussion kind of just moved there. For what it's worth, it was an interesting exchange that, I think, also showed how each of us approach the subject and explain why we have these convictions.

JuankiMan said:

Dammit, the forum completely messed up my reply. The last paragraph in each quote is actually the first paragraph of my responses. I must have offended the forum's Machine Spirit 

Lynata said:

To be fair, aside from a single Index Astartes article, and a Chapter Approved listing consisting of 3-4 units, we had no information about the Deathwatch, aside from their Job (to kill aliens and steal their artifacts).

I'm pretty sure No-Hero (or someone) and I said this last time you were talking about how radically divergent FFG's depiction of the Deathwatch is when compared to GW's.

Blood Pact said:

It's "N0-1_H3r3", pronounced "No-one Here". If you can't remember that, just call me Nathan.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

To be entirely honest, I always skip the numbers out of pure laziness over double-checking the exact characters and playing with my shift key… >.>

But I think I'll make a change with that, since in hindsight is it disrespectful, and you've proven to be one of my favourite writers around here.

Blood Pact said:

And the Inquisitor RPG.

Amount of information has nothing to do with degree of deviation, though. When you have a single sentence establishing that, say, a nation's flag is red, you can't really publish a new article that says it's actually blue and proclaim it's simply an expansion of existing material, just because your article is longer. That it may be, yet by not just adding but alterating things you still created a different take on it. A variation. And people who know the original material may notice and be confused.

This alone doesn't make one vision better or worse than the other - it's just something to realise. There's way too many people still thinking that it's all meant to tie into each other.

Speaking of which, I owe you an apology. I vaguely recall we had some rather harsh debates some time ago, back when I was still believing the lie of "everything is canon", from which I have now been cured, finally. I've not forgotten the defamation, but seeing that it was I who was in error regarding the core issue of the discussion I'd still like to say that I am sorry I have wasted both our time.

Lynata said:

The Inquisitor RPG had only a scant few paragraphs to say about the Deathwatch, though.

And the comparison is inaccurate. The Deathwatch still does the Inquisition's work, still divides itself operationally in Kill-Teams, still hunts aliens, they're still "red". It more like if all you knew of the Spanish flag is that it's red and yellow and then seeing the full flag with the Royal Crest on it. Yeah, they're different, but they're different takes representing the same thing, and are not mutually exclusive. Saying that they aren't meant to tie into each other doesn't mean they cannot.

Also, about red flags being blue, you might be surprised 

JuankiMan said:

Relativism. They are mutually exclusive when source A says the Deathwatch is subject to Inqusitional authority and source B says the Deathwatch doesn't have to give gak about them. They are mutually exclusive when source A says that kill-teams are led either by Inquisitors or DW Captains and source B says that DW Captains have a desk job in the fortress and Inquisitors only come along as guests. Hell, the whole kill-ship deal even goes straight against the Codex Astartes deal in that it gives the Space Marines a way too powerful tool if they ever decide to rebel against the Imperium again. Who builds them? Who has the command codes for these ships? What happens if their Chapter goes rogue?

No guys, this Deathwatch isn't red anymore. You may say it's orange, but it's clearly not the same shade of red. Let's be real here. You can't re-write an entire faction (or several, if we expand it to the other games) by replacing a number of traits with another idea and then claim it's still the same. By nature of how the franchise is run, it is not more "true" or "wrong" than whatever GW prints in their books, but you gotta at least stand up for the changes you made (or accept).

It's no different from the various BL novels, really. An author simply has to choose whether he wants to stick with the established material or pave his own way, so much so that it clearly deviates from what people saw before, or may have expected. Arguably doesn't make them less popular (Dan Abnett, Sandy Mitchell seem to be pretty successful), just more controversial.

JuankiMan said:

You can cherrypick from both variants, but wherever they conflict it would mean having to choose aspects of one over the other. So you'd simply end up with a third version of the Deathwatch.

Another point worthy of consideration is that the Imperium is so big, so old, and has such poor communications that it's entirely possible that the Deathwatch, or anything really is run in entirely different ways in different sectors. A lot of the fluff makes it perfectly clear that the customs of any given planet are likely as not to get you lynched or burnt on another.

Lynata said:

Apparently the greatest deviation and sore point is the Deathwatch's newfound authority and believe me, I actually prefer the old version. In fact, in my games, the Deathwatch is still under Inquisitorial authority and so are the Kill-Ships. At first it was because I didn't know better, but now it's because my group and myself prefer it that way. The rest can stay because, as I already have mentioned repeatedly, I don't see the conflict there and it gives the players something to look forward to, something to aspire. Except the Battle Barges. I find that to be complete overkill.

Is that really a third version of the Deathwatch? I don't think so. I think it's still the first version but expanded, looked at more in depth.

Incidentally, the Codex Approved article has the Kill-Team led by a Captain, but then again, it was expected to be thrown in the midst of a full-scale WH40K battle. Captains don't have a "desk job" in the RPG.  The fact that they don't accompany the squad doesn't mean that they spend all the time sitting on their asses doing nothing. They kill aliens like the best of them but, at least at first, the missions assigned to the PCs tend to be of a smaller scale and usually beneath the attention of a full-blown Watch Captain, but if shit hits the fan or the Kill-Team becomes widely renowned, a Captain may accompany them into battle. Hell, one of the players might be such Captain!

And what Andor said actually makes some sense. Again, I'm not as proficient in the Deathwatch RPG background so I may be putting my foot in my mouth here, but if I remember correctly, when disaster struck the Jericho Rech, leaving it effectively isolated, the Inquisition operatives pulled out but the Deathwatch stayed, refusing to abandon their Watch and specially the Omega Vault. In a way that made them rogue, but when the portal was discovered the Imperium had bigger fish to fry and needed the aid of the Space Marines that still held out in the Reach and knew the lay of the land. As such, the Inquisition may still not have regained control and is forced into more of an alliance than the usual Oath of Servitude. Personally I don't think it is the case, but it would be an explanation for the difference.

 Deathwatch is still under Inquistorial authority, nothing's changed just they have more autonomy than what other similar groups have. Which considering they're Space Marines it's not withstanding. 

Lynata said:

Your point is valid. It is, however, not relevant - you're arguing against something which doesn't actually exist.

The current background for the Deathwatch as presented within the RPG, presents the organisation as an ally of the Inquisition, formed by the mutual agreement between a variety of Astartes Chapters and representatives of the Inquisition during the Apocryphon Conclave. The Deathwatch can't just ignore the Inquisition, and while they have power and authority of their own, they are not independent operators.

The Inquisition and the Deathwatch are allies, drawn together by common purpose. The Deathwatch owes its foundation to the Inquisition, and are no less subject to Inquisitorial authority than anyone else in the Imperium - their place in the Imperium gives them freedoms not possessed by other organisations, and Inquisitors who work commonly with the Deathwatch are inclined to trust the hard-won experience of officers and veterans who have taken the Apocryphon Oath (the oath taken by all who join the Deathwatch).