Messenger said:

You haven't actually read what I wrote have you. Instead you've decided to lose your lunch. I can't help you if you won't listen, and I'm not really interested in being shouted at by someone that doesn't even extend me the basic courtesy of reading my posts before going off the deep end.

I didn't say you needed anything. I made that point abundantly clear more than once.

I didn't say 'card x' was gamebreaking. The reason for including three copies, if you so choose, of something like Ice Carver is so you can get it out quickly. Certainly you would want 2x that card. Would I use 3x? Probably not. 2x? Almost certainly; you can't search for it.

I've already said that I've brought the game. Doing so does not invalidate anything nor have you demonstrated otherwise. I brought it for the game in spite of the flaws in design.

I haven't called everyone else a troll. I called the people that are trolling trolls.

If you can't be bothered to read what other people write then that makes you a troll as well.

If you have no intention of buying the game, why are you here? 

It's an honest question.

signoftheserpent said:

You are a troll. You are a troll of the worst kind- the guy who just believes he is so right and beyond reproach that he refuses to listen to what other say and is willing to ignore their replies or even twist words and logic to suit themselves. (See below for the most important example of all in this discussion.)

Now, the only thing FFG promised by definition of their LCG format is that "A Core Set provides everything you need for a complete and self-contained game experience…" It's only you here who demands that they provide 3 copies of each card when the only thing that FFG promised is enough game components to play- something which you don't deny they've done.

Furthermore, you've already admitted explicitly that you don't deny that they can even play well with just what's in one Core- where it doesn't have 3 copies of each and every card in it anyway.

Are you that seriously blind about the absurdity of your own complaint? Are you truly that petty to miss that crucial point?

The game isn't "complete" because it doesn't have 3 copies of each card in it but people can play full and amazing games with it. They can even have tournaments with it without having to modify any of the basic rules and official tournament rules to make up for its "incompleteness".

The game is not incomplete. You just think so and for the lamest reason and you can't stand being called out for it.

And let's get this straight: you did go back on your own words. You started off with:

• "Based on this information I will not buy this game. FFG show a clear lack of understanding of ccg's or a crass desire to milk your customer. Either way it isn't for me."  followed by
• "Not unless I am prepared to buy 3 core sets which, IMO, is a pretty tall order and quite unreasonable on the part of FFG. It didn't need to be this way, but it is and so I am not prepared to get on board." and
• "This may be a great game, but since it's publishers have made what I consider to be a very flawed decision and since it can be played online without need the actual product…" and
• "I will not countenance any game that operates in that way, whether it's 3x or 4x or whatever, that doesn't give you any way to get those cards but to buy multiple copies of the core set like this, especiall when that means buying increasing amounts of cards you won't use. It's not even as if you could trade for these cards."

Finally you have: "Anyway I have decided on balance to try the game. I do not care for FFG's decision, they are a company that continually shoots itself in the in this way (great ideas but always with a string the tail unfortunately), and I do not stand by whatever motivated the distribution of this game, however."

In other words:

• I'm not going to buy it.
• I'm not going to buy it.
• I'm not going to buy it.
• I'm not going to buy it.
• I'm sticking to my reasons but I just bought it.

Which is a really funny way of "not standing by" the distribution of the game which renders you and all your arguing until this point all the more surreal.

Lastly, there's a real simple way to get the extra cards you need without the expense of buying additional Core Sets. This is paraphrased from a conversation I had:

Messenger: Hey, man. You got any (card X)s and (card Y)s you don't need? Can I buy them from you?
Messenger's friend: Oh, sure. (Insert small price here).
Messenger: Okay, that's fair. Deal.

Let me guess: you didn't think about that, did you?

Oh, man. The entertainment value of this thread just skyrocketed. XD

photogasm said:

Read the post again.

signoftheserpent said:

I read this post and a few others and then stopped to write this. 

You could just answer me instead of being snarky.

photogasm said:

And once again, buying the game does not invalidate criticism about its flaws. If i buy a loaf of bread from a shop that pays its staff poor wages, does that make paying poor wages acceptable? Of course not. I didn't design the core set. If you think life is this simplistic you are going to be sorely disappoiunted.

Messenger said:

You are not listening.

signoftheserpent said:

As I said before, I read your first post and a few others when I asked my question.  I would clearly not have seen the post 'right above mine' at the time of asking.

In any event, you're clearly looking for some kind of contest, so I'm out.

I'm new to LCGs with A:NR but I'm certainly happy with a distribution model that has a fixed completionist premium attached to it rather than an essentially open-ended and random completionist premium.

I don't know of any CG distribution system that has no completionist premium at all in the implied pricing structure (and in most it is a considerable premium). While I think it's reasonable and fine to object to the notion of completionist premiums, I can't see that it is fair to heap special opprobrium on FFG over this. They promised fixed distribution and pricing out of the LCG model. That they've given anyone who buys in.

The argument about limited experience is a bit moot as it folds into wanting to be a completionist. Fine if you want that but the deal is you have to pay extra. It's not some outrageous infringement of the principles of game play.

Now assuming, signoftheserpent, that you will accuse me of not reading your posts or 'listening', I will address what on my reading (reading by its very nature is an act of interpretation) is your issue here.

You seem to take the position that a core set should provide as many copies of a card as it is legal to build into a deck. As A:NR rules make it legal to include up to 3 copies of any card in the actual deck (identities aside of course) your position is that the core set should therefore include 3 copies of every deck-building card OR that there should be a 'completionist expansion' that can be bolted onto a core set to make up the 'gaps' your perceive there to be in the core set as a result of 1x and 2x issued cards in the box.

This is a perfectly reasonable position.

It is also one I disagree with. I do not honestly see that it is necessary to include as many legal copies of every core set card in a 'core set'. I especially do not see that it is necessary when the core set is explicitly designed to permit quick and easy deck builds for the beginner. Indeed, I see completionism in the core set as conflicting with one of the primary purposes of the core set in the case of this game.

The core set has been constructed and balanced so that each faction's total number of core set cards as provided can be shuffled into the total number of faction type neutral cards as provided in order to produce a reasonable balanced and efficient deck build.

This is consideration that plays with the FFG approach to building this core set box. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with the business and balancing decisions underpinning this. But this is how it is.

I hope you enjoy this game as much as I am enjoying it and perhaps come to see that in reality there are not many operative limits on your gameplay and enjoyment arising from the core set box build.

signoftheserpent said:

Of course you can play the game out of the box. The word completely in your first sentence feels a little misdirected. I feel my experience with the core set is complete. Clearly, you feel you can't.

Your third sentence I get. I understand that someone might feel a little frustrated by FFG's decision.

However…

I am so excited by this game. It's AWESOME. Clearly I don't personally feel impeded by this distrubution method (I own one core set). That said, all I want are more cards - as in, more expansions - and I am very excited to see the new cycle be released throughout the course of the next few months.

I want FFG to recognise that the game is loved and enjoyed, that people are willing to part with their hard-earned cash to play and support it. Looking through the product lists of the other LCGs (of which, I have experienced none), I can only hope that A:NR achieves the same number of add-ons.

All this negativity, it won't change how FFG distro the core set. Let's focus on letting them know that we love the product, and hope, that as loyal customers and fans, we will be treated fairly as we go forwards.

You know another fact about distribution is; it doesn't always pay to be first.

Ex. I managed to secure a copy of WLA but am not allowed to use it for a local tourney :(

signoftheserpent said:

ROFLMAO!

See? Here we go again. The only thing you have going for your reasoning of "incompleteness" is not having 3 copes of each card, not if the game can be played normally to its fullest, ignoring that it can even be played at tournament levels. You don't even need 3 copies of each card to make a deck and play, yet you cling to it as if it was the end all and be all of the game.

FFG has lived up to its end of the bargain; the only thing you're doing is tacking on an anal and completist but completely unnecessary and even unfair judgement on their method and product.

Look at your responses: you either claim people don't get what you're saying, or you cherry pick what they say, or you completely ignore their valid points against yours.

You just don't get that not having 3 copies of each card just doesn't matter now, with just the Core Set, and especially with the coming of the game's expansions! It's unbelievable how you refuse to even address it.

Believe me, we're not the ones having any problems reading and compreheding things in this matter. We're not the ones who can't see the forest for the trees; or, in this case, the deck among the cards.

So, o most righteous and respectful consumer, having bought your Core Set- despite repeated and explicit claims that the lack of triple copies isn't worth your while- tell me: have you built your deck yet? Or are you still pissed off that you have to buy another Core Set? And a third? Do tell us again how wrong and evil FFG was to do it and how you could never support their distribution system. :-) 

signoftheserpent said:

Of course, by that standard, you are a troll as well. Even now, with my most recent replies, I can see how you're ignoring the arguments given to you that contradict what you're saying just so you can keep up your opinion. I've gone through this thread, and you've done it so many times with other people. Whenever you reply, you cut out whatever statements and facts go directly, explicitly and overwhelmingly against your position. You act as if they were never said or that they don't matter despite the truth being the contrary.

The difference between us as trolls? I'm honest enough to admit it.

Everyone around here sees how both unilateral and unreasonable you've been; they have every right to call you a troll. And yet you can't bear to face that, denying it or calling your accusers trolls despite what you've posted and how you've acted.

I mean, come on! You posted at least 4 times that you weren't getting into this game on this issue! You felt so strongly about it! And then you bought it anyway despite claiming it was against your principles!

Keep it up. I want to see how far you can go. :-D

signoftheserpent said:

Logical fallacy.

signoftheserpent said:

Logical fallacy.