So, I have a terrible idea, but I am wondering how terrible other people might think it is? The idea? IG Jetpack Troopers.

Okay, I am one of those people who look at the Guard, and sometimes complain that they don't get some of the good stuff. Some of that is item cost, some is the limitations of the minis range, and no matter how much that might annoy us, a great deal of the things in these books comes directly from those codices. I've never been so happy that Guard don't get bikes. I think they could really benefit from a high-mobility unit, maybe with a mounted special weapon, and an extra point of Toughness. I would've liked to see some jeep-like vehicles, but they don't get those either; only Orks got trikes, jeeps, and other crap, and they still get looted LRBTs.

The end point of this post, what would people think of having an available option be jetpacks? Now, they aren't very common, but I don't want them to be; they can be a rare upgrade of sorts. All the character would need is the pack, carapace armor to mostly shield them from the pack (and none of the books I've seen them in say Power Armor is REQUIRED; yes, I know that Assault Marines and Seraphim wear PA, but they do without the packs, too), and the Pilot (personal) skill. I can easily see a group, say the Elysians, who don't make use of heavy vehicles, modifying their tactics by using jetpack hit-and-run attacks.

What do others think of this thought? I know it won't appear in the main book, or probably any OW book, since the Guard aren't known for having jetpacks, but it's an easy mod, and doesn't demand anything that would grossly unbalance the game (a Flyer 12 Guardsman is still no worse than a Flyer 12 Assault Marine), or be hard to slip into the book, assuming jetpacks won't be in it.

Back in 1st or 2nd Ed, the Ig had access to assault trooeprs, armed with pistosl and chainsword, and they even had the option to be equipped with jetpacks (at 10pts/model) hell, the old IG even had land speeders!  But it was changed when they took out the next edtion in favour of the IG being the IG we all know.

but fine by me jetpacks guardsmen, must be form a tehcno-advanced worls, no feral worlders please.

Please kindly notice the already-mentioned Elysians have the so-called 'grav-chutes': a kind of stripped-down jump pack, which allows them to deep strike, but is not good enough to jump around the battlefield. Anything more complex (such as seraphim or astartes pattern jump packs) seem unlikely, in my opinion.

It all comes down to human stamina and toughness, I reckon. It's one thing for a genetically-superior or power armour-encased soldier to jump around the battlefield with a rocket strapped to his back, and quite another - for an ordinary (even very muscular) man to do the same. There is also the matter of fuel: in case of power armour the jump pack could be tapped into the armour internal power supply, in case of carapace armour a fuel cistern or a separately insltalled power source would be required. Both options would increase already considerable bulk of the jump pack, making it unwieldy and cumbersome in the extreme.

Besides, guardsmen - let's face it - are the cannon fodder of the Imperium. Some regiments are valued more than others, of course, but in general they're expendable, and indeed expected to die in droves. You don't issue the cheap shock troops with premium and expensive equipment, it's far more valuable than the men who use it. A callous outlook, perhaps, but the war has its own logic and ethics.

*shrug* Do whatever suits you, I doubt the GW canon police will storm your home.

That being said, I think the Elysian grav-chute is pretty much the limit of what's common in the guard. Bikes would probably exist, as they're useful, relatively lowtech and cheap. Jetpacks would run into the issues mentioned by Erborn.

I'll say it again, like some sort of mantra, the Imperial guard are the most diverse fighting force in the galaxy. Just cause they have only one codex doesn't mean they have less stuff than Space Marines, just less of it makes it into the rules. This is why, there's so much stuff on Forge World for the guard and they still aren't complete. They haven't even done all of the stuff that was available in Epic scale.

So bikes, trucks, fine. In fact I think the entry for Rough Riders in the codex says it can be bikes.

Even though it seems like something wouldn't be cost effective just means that it's not at all common. There could still be a super rich world that gives it's troops the best stuff or one of the ancient gene enchanced super regiments like they have on Terra that doesn't still rock that sh!t.

However… Jet packs (and Jet bikes for that matter) seems to be a kind of a super rarity since the heresy. Even the Space Marines don't have that stuff regularly anymore.

Erborn said:

I understand that, and such has been my very argument on some other threads here, but since it is what we will be playing, I like some ideas that differ them from the meat grinder fodder I have come to know. I want to feel like my Guardsman is special/important, so he will have a reason to survive the first battle. I don't need/want excessive things (jetpacks are probably excessive), but I do want to know that, while I'm not playing DW/RT/DH, my character will still share some of the milestones I personally look for, such as getting to use some unusual gear.

venkelos said:

It doesn't seem unreasonable that Pc guardsmen will be the guys with plasma guns, melta guns, the odd bolt weapon, etc. Some PC's may even start with some like the Commissar. Teh Commissar almost assuredly starts with a bolt pistol. Power weapons seem likely for 'leader types' as well.

 in the Imperium, jetpacks are a rare commodity that are made on few forge worlds thereby making it hard to replace and maintain the tech.

All forgeworlds can pump out Chimeras and most can even make a Leman Russ (or a cheap knockoff).

Logistically it makes more sense for the IG to fight like an up-armoured USSR circa WWII. 

I"m not saying it's "A Bit Too Much" but you are more likely to see that sort of thing in a RT's personal army… campaign idea, anyone? 

I don't think it's a bit too much at all…

That is a picture from 1st edition (where they could indeed have jump-pack troops). However, Warhammer 40k has changed quite a bit from then, and it doesn't really fit with the current portrayal of the guard.

Of course the OP can do whatever he wants with his campaign. I personally wouldn't as it doesn't fit with the image of the Guard I personally hold to (Red Army IN SPAACEE! with some slight variation).

I wouldn't ignore bikes for a "hit and run" unit. Yes, they don't get them rules wise officially, but they are a lot less out of place than jump packs and as someone else has said, I think it has been stated that bike mounted troops could just be treated as Rough Riders. A similar view could be taken for jeep like vehicles (though I am less keen on them, again purely for stylistic reasons).

Basically I would personally just let them have bikes over them getting jump packs.

I agree. IG are pretty much equipped with cheap and/or durable items that require relatively little maintenance, or low-level maintenance. This is barring a few 'special' support weapons or items to increase the effectiveness of the unit (like plasma guns, etc). That is why the lasgun is the primary weapon of the IG.  It is cheap to produce, easy to maintain, and can recharge to replace ammunition.  Equipping a whole unit with jetpacks seems counter-intuitive to this philosophy.  I could more likely see a single "forward recon" individual, who has proven himself, be issued a jetpack rather than the entire unit.

Now, that said, it is possible that the IG might have an Elite unit that ignores this philosophy (to an extent). An elite recon platoon equipped with jump packs might be a feasible concept. In relation to the RPG, I would expect that would need to be something gained once the PCs gained quite a bit of experience, however.

Yeah; maybe Segmentum command made a highly trained special mission force, created to fight a ruthless Rebellious organisation.

Comename: I.G. Jok (Real Imperium Hero)

borithan said:

In much the same way that whole segments of the Imperium are behind the times, or have little contact with the wider galaxy, the thoughts of the past don't need to be always ignored. And "the portrayal of the Guard" is what? They have Rambos, Iraqi Freedom soldiers, crazy Cold War Russians, Mongollian Steppe horse warriors, Britixh Infantry, and MORE, all in the same force. Id say, with the right greased palms, they could have a t least a little bit of anything.

dvang said:

I understand their arming mechanic, but as a Player, I suffer from an ingrained desire to feel better than the masses; that's why I'm a PC, and have a destiny, other than to die in a nameless battle, never remembered, and easily replaced by the next meatball to follow. In a game where I expect Psychic Powers to suck, and what Officers they might have might not have Order abilities, and Ogryns might be pussies, gear was my big hope. It would take a while, but it's where some of the best growth might be found, so long as it isn't JUST to maybe-Carapace armor.

It's been said before here: with over a million worlds to chose from, you're going to find a staggering diversity of cultures, equippage, customs, etc. I think that the Guard units should be allowed damned near ANYTHING that the Imperium has to offer, except Astartes progenoids and so on.

Besides, I still have my Guard army from Space Marine (Epic), and it damned sure has both jump-pack troops and a LOT of bikers! As well as Predator tanks, all the heavy artillery, and two Leviathan command forts for CCC.

Based on Imperial Guard fiction (which I know some people don't consider canon) there are a few regiments equipped with cut-down versions of the standard Astartes jump pack - cut down because they troopers were not sturdy enough to withstand the full acceleration and the unit don't have to lift 400 Kg of armored super-soldier.

The most notable of these regiments are the Phantine Air Corps that appeared in "Guns of Tanith" and later in the "Sabbath World Omnibus". Based on the description the Icarus pattern unit they used was no jetpack, but allowed some limited flight, combining a grav-chute system with an internal fan.

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Babbist opened the crate and lifted something out for them all to see. It was a compact but heavy metal backpack with a fearsome harness that included thigh loops, and a hinged arm with a moulded handgrip on the left side. The backpack sprouted two blunt, antler-like horns from the shoulders that ended in fist-sized metal balls. It was painted matt-green.

“What we have here, friends and neighbours,” said Babbist, patting the old, worn unit, “is a classic type five infantry jump pack. Accept no imitations. Formal spec, for those that need it, is Type Five Icarus-Pattern Personal Descent Unit with dual M12 gravity nullers and a variable-vent compressor fan for attitude control. Which, I gather, many of you need.”

There were some laughs, but the Ghosts’ attention was fixed on the device.
“Manufactured on Lucius forge world,” Babbist continued, “it’s the standard Guard variant of the assault jump pack. Smaller and lighter, not to mention more compact, than the heavy jobs used by the Adeptus Astartes. The Marines, Emperor bless ’em, need heavier duty babies to hold them in the air. Besides which, we’re not gods. We wouldn’t be able to stand up with one of the Astartes packs yoked to us.” (Guns of Tanith pg. 150-151)

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venkelos said:

What portrayal of the guard? 2nd edition 40k onwards. There haven't been any Imperial Guard jump troops since 1st edition 40k and Epic 2nd edtion, when the Imperial Guard changed from a punk sci-fi army (jet packs and all) to their portrayal as the unyielding mass of the Imperium, the fairly inflexible hammer of the emperor (though the general portrayal has changed more recently). Much of the variety has been cosmetic, rather than anything else (though there are extremes, which tend to be extremes to the hilariously outdated, rather than "supa-elite sci fi", such as the formed ranks of the Mordian Iron Guard).

Iraqi Freedom soldiers? Who are you referencing there? I can see Catachans, Valhallans (though I think they are alluding more to WW2 Russians than Cold War ones), Atillans and Praetorians. Do you mean the Tallarn? If so they really are much more inspired by a combination of Lawrence of Arabia and the WW2 LRDG (though the latter is hard to tell from the models and is mostly evident in their background).