While it may seem muddy, it doesn't seem muddy to me.  Just agree on what suits you and be done with it.  I think Stone Skin makes the most sense to use BEFORE defense dice are rolled.  I've accepted it and moved on.  If I play with a bunch of you later (which I never will) and you want to argue the nuance of the rule, we will reach a new agreement for that game only…but I enjoy the game as-is with the rule the way I see it and the balance of teh space-time continuum remains intact.

Another "dice rolling' effect that is equally as "muddy" are the skills (and there are several of them) which say "If one damage is applied after defense dice are rolled"

That one will throw you for a loop as well.  Because there are attack dice, defense dice, then there are surges, and there are overlord cards…there are many more facets to determining if damage is done other after the defense dice are rolled.  For example, if I roll two surges, I'm entitled to wait to see the defense dice before deciding if I want to apply extra damage or remove fatigue.

Now throw in that skill that requires you to assess if you did damage "after defense dice were rolled" does that mean before or after applying the surges?  You can be a walking stressball worrying about the wording on these cards.

At the end of the day, our group decided, if damage was done.  Period.   Then the affect occurs.  If the OL stops it with his cards, or if surges are needed to make the damage occur, then so be it.

I didn't quote anyone specific in this simply because there were several voicing the same thing.  Please review page 14 of the rule book regarding the example of combat.  The bottom left hand talks about dice rolling.  It says that the attacker an defender simultaneously roll their dice.  Thus there is absolutely no confusion or "muddying" as it was put.  Stoneskin must be used before the dice roll.  Since the dice are rolled at the same time, before the defense dice is also before the attack dice.  Hope that provides some clarity to the circumstances.    

Some people seem to be missing the point. Yes, you have to use Stone Skin before rolling defense dice. If it's the original target of the attack, then attack & defense dice are rolled at the same time. If the attacker uses a surge from that roll to attack additional targets (see OP), then additional defense dice have to be rolled for the new defender(s).  Before they roll their defense dice, can Stone Skin be applied to the new roll(s)?

Triu, Wow did I ever miss it!!!!!! I went back and re-read the thread and apparently I missed an extremely important post that clarified things for me.  Reading that post, my whole view of the thread discussion changed.  So, with that in mind, my position has already been iterated, oddly enough, by the post I missed.  Due to the wording indicating that the dice are added to the defense pool of the hero that is being attacked, a strict interpretation would not allow Stoneskin to be used to increase the defense of a hero affected by an attack if he is not a target of the attack.  Same ultimate answer, but the logic I provided was off in left field somewhere.  Just goes to show that what my boss used to say is true, "Perspective is reality," for that person.   

So you can Stoneskin the target of the original attack, but not the other defenders affected by the attack (not attacked directly).  I wouldn't play it that way, but a very literal reading of the rules seems to support it. 

My reasons are based more on how it plays than RAW.  Since the Spiritspeaker has to be in range, pay a fatigue, & exhaust the card, it's not like Stoneskin is going to be madly abused on every attack.  I've seen the opinion that the Spiritspeaker is the weakest class, so limiting it at all seems like a bad idea.

Well, this is one of those - 1 attack roll >  multiple targets/multiple defense rolls.

An effect like blast increases the attack radius to the adjacent squares - so I would say the peripheral characters were also being attacked by the blast attack. The actual target of the attack just represents the central square of the attack radius.

And as surge abilities are applied after the initial attack roll - you simply need to exhaust stoneskin before making the defense roll for the stoneskin target

Page 14 - Step 2 "roll dice" - in the end of the text "Both players simultaneously roll their dice". 

There is no such thing as "after the attack roll but before the defense roll".

 Does it still hold true that an area of effect attack only targets one square (but damages figures in many squres)?  If so, perhaps only that targeted square is being attacked.  The fact that the area of effect is added after the attack roll does seem to get around Ironskin.  I hope the next FAQ clears this up.

You can't roll all the defense dice when you're rolling for the attack dice, simply because some surge effects (blast, fire breath) change the number of targets.

Dam said:

I would still say that this happens simultaneously in the sense that nothing can happen in between. You roll all the attack dice, resolve who rolls defense dice and then roll all defense dice in one "step". Skills etc could only be used before or after that step, never in between.

Wrapped said:

1. Declare Weapon and Target
2. Roll Dice
3. Check Range
4. Spend Surges
5. Deal Damage

Surges are a separate step from Roll Dice, so you are already past that step when Blast is triggered by a surge.  Does this mean that you do not allow the use of the Accurate skill or abilities that allow you to reroll dice?

 I am pretty sure this issue is resolved, at least for me the OP

If my spirit speaker was not the initial target of the fire breath, because fire breath is added if a surge is rolled, then I would be able to use stone skin because i have yet to roll MY defense die. 

I was not the initial target, so no need to roll defense die, when the attack die were rolled. 

It would seem absurd if I had to use stoneskin to defend from an attack that I thought MIGHT be coming. This is why I asked the question. If I did use it what would stop the OL from not applying fire breath, therefore calling my bluff and making me exhaust stone skin and using a fatigue. 

That is why I also asked if the OL had to state his intention that he will use stone skin before he rolls attack die. 

mustardayonnaiz said:

You play it exactly as I would. I think the intention of the card is that it has to be played before the affected hero rolls defense dice, not to limit its ability to be played in funky situations where they are a second target.