Cyan_of_Doma said:

I would definitely side with you on this view if we were talking about companions, familiars, etc.  But a summoned creature could easily be considered different in this regard.  Obviously I'm aware that we're outside the scope of realism or even standard fantasy canon, and at this point we can just borrow from our favorite fantasy literature with regards to how summoning works.  

So… I'll do just that.  I'd like to think that a summoned monster/creature/whatever would either all together lose the power that has summoned it, or at least lose direction.  

As a follow-up, I most definitely side with you on wanting to make a sandwich.  Cajun Turkey on wheat with colby jack, here I come!

FYI, Bindlespin, you just cracked me up.

Antistone said:

I went back and read again.  You're right… it doesn't make as much difference as I thought.  I originally read it as 

"Do you see a difference between "[made] a sandwich" and "tell John that you're making…"

No apology necessary on your part… so I'll do it.  Sorry!  :D

Antistone said:

Damn.  It's going to be a lot harder to assert my decision on all of you now, let alone the developers.  Thanks for checking though!

Edit*  Three posts in a row.  I need to take a break!

CitanTim said:

Now, without intending to, you've given me an interesting idea for a houserule.  Say that when George's Necro falls in battle, he "loses direction" as you said.  Instead of just standing there and drooling on himself (or whatever it is re-animates do when they're idleing), George loses his focus and just goes wild, shambling towards and attacking whatever may be closest at the time, be it hero or monster.  I may just have to try that out.

Though, to address something else you said, the Re-Animate is considered a "familiar" per the rules, if that makes any difference to your arguement.  Cheers!

I really like this.  Let me know how it goes… I honestly have no idea what effect it would have on the balance or mechanics, but considering the point of this thread, it may just work out.

Yeah, I knew it was considered a familiar, I was just referencing the terms as found outside the game in other fantasy settings and systems.  I'm not really 'making an argument' more like talking "out-loud" because I'm bored at work.  0:-)

CitanTim said:

Ah, I know what you mean.  I talk things "out-loud" all the time, and frequently in games.  I will report my findings on this, though it may be a little while, as we just started a campaign and the mage decided to be a Runemaster.  I might just have to do a one-off quest to see how it works.

I have found the necromancer to be pretty potent but not broken. The Overlord just needs to realize what he's up against. As Overlord I found that the zombie was the heaviest hitter in the group (with the yellow die upgrade) but it has no defense. So it's the first thing I kill every turn. It made the necromancer really work to keep his zombie in the fight and there were a few turns where he couldn't get the little guy out (out of stamina). It also ensured that the necromancer never got two actions on his turn (since getting the zombie out consumes one) keeping the overall damage output of the party at a manageable level.

MasterBeastman said:

Thankfully someone noted this and I didn't have to repeat what was said.

 It takes a profound lack of deduction to believe the language used in the Stand Up rules do not adequately imply your turn is over. It says that immediately following you flip your Activation card over, you're done. That's it. No where does it say "Well you INDICATE that your turn is over, but its not actually over keep on doing your business." if that was the case why would they bother wasting valuable ink telling you tinfoil the card over indicating your turn is over? Seriously someone give me a valid reason why the game would make the effort to indicate your turn is over without it actually being over.

As far as the Reanimated moving on a turn that the Necromancer is knocked out the solution seemed clear as crystal to us: Yes, the only action the Necromancer can take is Stand-Up, however a familiar may be activated at any time during the Hero's turn which includes before he/she makes the Stand-Up action.

 Silly auto correct. Replace "tinfoil" with "to flip"

Steve-O said:

That contradicts letting your familiar activate after your hero has activated in a normal (not knocked out) turn. In a way this supports Antistone by demonstrating that  the rules need interpreting on which sentences are literal and which are rough guidelines with exceptions.

 I'm sorry for being ignorant, but where in the rules does it say that it activates after the hero? The section on Familiars is pretty clear, it may be activated at any time DURING the controlling hero's turn.

And my point still stands about stand-up. There's no reason why anyone would state to indicate your turn is over when it really isn't. Not a single logical in game reason for that. Besides, by allowing a player to take an action after stand-up it takes all the bite out of being defeated. Compare it to something like the stunned condition its basically a stun in which you heal from (yeah yeah yeah but you're so hurt, boo hooCleric stands up and uses his heal, no big deal). It makes being defeated almost a complete non-issue, but by making defeated heroes spend their whole turn shaking the bats out of their belfry(and thus making it a bit more troublesome than stunned) it makes players value their heroes health more as losing o0ne action is not that bad but s whole turn can cost them the game.

WittyDroog said:

Exactly. But either before or after your actions.

The rule Terah quoted says to flip your activation card to indicate your turn is over after performing your actions.  The familiar rules state that familiars can be activated during your turn but after your actions.  See the parallel?

WittyDroog said:

There is also no logical reason to instruct the player to indicate their turn is over instead of instructing them to end their turn if you really mean the latter.

 "That depends on what your definition of 'is' is" That's how I feel this argument is going. But here, let's try and break this down.

Page 10: Stand Up

"When a hero is knocked out, he can only perform a stand up action"

Okay, so far so good, it's like the Stunned condition saying that while you have the Stunned card you can only perform a Special action to remove the Stunned card.

"In addition, this action may onle be performed by a hero that is knocked out."

Seemed silly to me why this had to be said, but it prevents people from abusing the healing properties of it

"To to stand up, the player rolls two red power dice, recovers damage equal to the [HEART] rolled, recovers fatigue equal to the [SURGE] rolled, replaces his hero token with his hero figure, and then flips his Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (he may not perform an additional action)."

Crystal clear to me. Your turn is done for all intents and purposes. You can't perform any additional action, and your card is flipped. There may have been a more concise way to say this ("Your turn is over"), but this clearly defines that your card is flipped and you can't perform any other action. To claim that FFG intentionally meant that your turn is not over despite the rather ham-fisted wording is preposterous, perhaps the reason they outlined it so is because someone on this forum might have said "Well it says my turn is over, but they didn't say I lose my second action" or something else incredibly rule-abusive.

As for the familiar going before or after, The Necromancer's turn is done so in practise it doesn't matter WHEN the Reanimate actually moves during the turn because the end result is exactly the same (in fact it's more advantageous to first move the Reanimate over the hero token so when you stand up you are placed on an adjecent square, as the Reanimate specifically counts as a figure), but if we want to be SUPER DUPER TECHNICAL as it seems some people are, because all that motion in the Stand-Up action is under the same breath (commas, not periods), your turn would be done after the Stand-Up and therefore you could not move your familiar. So move it before you Stand-Up.

WittyDroog said:

I have never claimed that.  Read my earlier posts.