DeadInkPen said:

yeah for some reason everyone seems to be stuck on the notion that the extra defence die is worth the 3 points.  Odds are that you are just wasting the 3 points because with all the new action cards out there, you are just going to get hit right away anyways.. homing missles are a prime example of how to strip off the stealth device with ease, target locks give a great chance to get a hit in when rolling 3 dice vs 4 defense.
Expose is another great example of a card, and one i might add that doesn't get a lot of attention for how good it is; especially in lists that grant bonus actions to other ships

the average evade roll on 4 dice is 1-2.. stronger on the 2 side but still high chances of only rolling 1 evade and even lower of rolling 3 or 4 so when playing a game that has a lot of luck factor to it by using dice, why rely on a strategy that requires even more luck to make it work

i just don't understand the logic behind stealth device

this game favors aggression heavily over defensive tactics so I work with the flow and make builds around more threats

5 TIE Interceptor Avenger pilots, easy.

DoubleNot7 said:

In the words of Yoda, " … and that is why you fail."

DeadInkPen said:

I ran Krassis with HLC, Mauler, Backstabber, and 2 AP's. I was playing against some noobs, so we didn't play with asteroids. So, they weren't ultra competitive builds I was playing against, but in 2 of the games I didn't lose a single ship. The other game I still had Krassis and Backstabber left.

On topic, I played my new squad with 2 Interceptors today. I played against the "Han Shoots first" list (Han with 2 Rookie Pilots.) The first game we didn't use asteroids, as he was new to using the large ships. He did beat me that game. We played again with asteroids, and I won that game. Of course, both games I had a LOT of 4 dice rolls against the Falcon, and every time I rolled 1 hit. It doesn't matter how well you fly if you're only rolling 1 hit with 4 dice every time. It got really annoying, to tell you the truth. Also both games he 1-shotted Backstabber with his first attack, so I need to figure out how to use him differently, because playing down a TIE to start with kinda sucks.

Anyway, will play more this weekend and see how that goes.

"Han Shoots First" lists, especially ones with Han running marksman and/or gunner, are going to be brutal against both TIE's and squints.  Three hull points just don't cut it against that kind of consistant damage.

I run 4 Interceptors, 3 sabers, and Phennir. Give them all push the limit.

I like to run them in wing pairs.  

Fly them close, but not too close. 

executor said:

On the topic of the Stealth Device, a Homing Missile with Target Lock has almost exactly a 50/50 chance to hit ship with 4 Agility and Focus. If you want to spend three 5-point missiles to take down two 3-point Stealth Devices, be my guest.

Stealth Devices mess around with the damage distribution in ways I think are interesting. If you have 3 Attack and Focus, and I have 3 Agility, you have a 72% chance to hit me and do an average of 1.22 damage with your attack; if I have a Stealth Device, you have a 60% chance to hit me, and do an average of 0.95 per attack.  If I can use a Focus to defend myself, the benefits are even larger: the Stealh Device halves your chance to hit and almost halves your average damage. That may not turn out to be worth it in the end, but what I like is that it gives me a small edge in the early rounds, where a bit of luck for my opponent can have large consequences at the end of the game. 

On the topic of Expose, you say it isn't getting enough attention for how good it is, and I disagree: it's getting way more attention than it merits, given how bad it is. In most cases, it has a smaller offensive benefit than Focus--and Focus doesn't inflate your point value or cripple your defense. It's only valuable in a list where the ship running it can gain an extra action, and even then you need to keep a careful eye on how you're going to minimize the defensive risk.

Vorpal Sword said:

Well just to be fair you also get some damage in the exchange as well.

Stealth Device on a lucky roll will last past the first engagement. On an awful roll, you're just as dead as if you didn't have it.

Most of the time it will reduce the amount of damage your unshielded TIE Interceptor takes while it closes for a flank. That makes it pretty worthwhile.

I still haven't been too tempted to run a 3rd interceptor.

Vorpal Sword said:

I agree on expose - if a ship has to chose between expose and focus or target lock, its generally at least equal odds, if not better odds, to take the focus.  There are exceptions to this:  1 attack die - you would be better to expose for 2 AD than to focus 1 AD.  3 and 4 Attack Dice w/ target Lock OR focus is slightly better than 2 and 3 attack dice with target lock and focus.  

If you can find a way to stack extra actions on a ship with expose, especially both target lock and focus on a ship, expose is worth a look.  This means that without squad leader or another benefit, on the ship with expose, you're better just taking the focus.  Lets look at the situations where we can stack extra actions:

Rebel:

In rebels, you're rather limited in what you can take Expose on - you've got Luke, Wedge, Chewie, Lando, Han, Green Squadron, and Tycho.  Squad leader is the most obvious way to stack the extra action, but that won't work on Wedge and Han, and you can pretty much leave out Lando as well due to point concerns.  You probably don't want to put expose on Luke, either, since his pilot ability works on Green Dice and you really don't want to decrease those.  Lando and Tycho can't benefit from Garvin's focus offensively and you don't have many options to get them benefits from squad leader and still work in another buff, so I wouldn't recommend expose on either of them either.  That pretty much leaves us with Chewie and the Green Squadron.

Green Squadron:
Lando w/ Squad Leader, or Dutch and Garvin can give target lock and focus to a  Green Squadron w/ Expose.  This is a pretty good increase in firepower at range 2 and 3 over a stock A-Wing, but you'll still manage more hits buying a Concussion Missile.  At range one you only need to stack expose with a target lock or a focus to get an increase in firepower but you have to keep Lando in Range 2 or have Dutch or Garvin within range 2.  You'll have to watch out for the low Pilot Skill, as the Green Squadron can end up taking quite a bit of fire before it actually gets to shoot.

Chewie
Much like a Green Squadron, Lando w/ Squad Leader, or Dutch and Garvin can give target lock and focus to a Chewie w/ Expose.  At range 2 and 3, you get a minimal increase in firepower with expose + target lock (as opposed to target lock and focus) to the point where 0 defense dice isn't worth it. You'll get a much larger increase in damage with expose + target lock and focus, but you still get 0 defense dice.  Additonally, there isn't much room left in the list for upgrades either way you go, and chewie with a gunner may be a better option than chewie with expose (with expose, you may squeeze 1 damage in, whereas with a gunner, the first shot may miss and the second shot may land multiple hits now that their defense is removed).  

Imperial:

In imperial, you've got extra options for expose (Black Squadron, Sabre Squadron, Mauler, Boba, Kath, Vader, Maarek, Soontir, and Turr).  Howlrunner gives a semi target lock to friendly ships and can be given squad leader to stack the extra action without having to bring other ships to do the buffing in the squad.  Without Howlrunner around, you really don't pick up much (a few tenths of a perctage in expected hits) in imperials with Expose as you can't stack both target lock and focus on anything but the Firespray and the Tie Advanced.  Then, you have the same problems with PS 9, so I think we can rule out Boba and Soontir from really wanting expose.  Maarek would prefer marksman ship to try to trigger his pilot skill, so he is out.  The Black Squadron isn't really worth it IMO, as for 18 points you can just bring an interceptor, though you do pick up some pilot skill with the Black Squadron.  Sabre Squadron w/ Expose has promise, though you're still at PS 4, but for fewer points you can bring Mauler who is even higher pilot skill and might kill his target before it gets to shoot back.  So, the interesting options are Mauler, Vader, Kath, and Turr.

Turr Phennir:
Turr is probably the most obvious place for expose - if you can't benfit from Squad leader you're still better to Focus with Turr, but if you can get the focus from squad leader, you can expose and either destory your target or potentially barrell roll out of their arc.  Howrunner helps Turr even more, but being able to shoot so early and move out of arcs is really in favor of Turr w/ Expose.  Just watch out for 360 arcs as you're looking at a 29 point Turr…

Vader:
Vader gets two actions, so he can target lock and expose, and he gets to fire first almost all the time, so if you can kill your target before it gets to shoot back expose can be an OK choice.  As long as Vader isn't in the line of fire from multiple enemy ships, Expose isn't a bad choice here, but it still bumps him up to 33 points for a small increase in offensive firepower and a pretty big decrease in survivability.  I'd say, use with caution.

Mauler:
Expose gives Mauler interceptor firepower for the same points as as a Sabre squadron. You'll lose out on the boost action, but you do get the higher pilot skill.  Not a terrible choice, but Mauler only has 3 hull and he can't get out of danger as easily as Turr.  If you're considering an Alpha squadron and already have Howl Runner w/ Squad leader floating around, I'd be tempted to go with Mauler w/ Expose instead.

Kath:
You'll probably be firing the heavy laser every turn when you're not in range one, but you would have the option to fire 5 dice at range one with Howlrunner giving a reroll.  The problem is, once you drop Expose on Kath you're pretty much limited to a 4 ship list, and 3 of those ships will be ties.  I'm not sure how competitive that is in the long run…

Endgame124 said:

I actually blogged about this a little while ago. I agree with a lot of your post, with a few exceptions:

• I would argue that Green Squadron is a bad place for Expose: for 23 points, you get a ship that can transition between an A-wing with no upgrades and an X-wing with no actions; for the same 23, you could buy a Red Squadron Pilot with the same pilot skill and notably better offense. There's some discussion on this point in the comments over at my place.

• I also think you missed a couple of steps with respect to putting Expose on X-wings. Dutch can donate a Target Lock to Wedge, allowing him to get some use out of Expose--as long as you can otherwise arrange to keep a 1-Agility Wedge alive. And even Luke actually isn't a terrible place for Expose, since his pseudo-Focus actually leaves him in a better defensive position than Wedge should he be fired upon. Obviously you'd like to direct some attacks and/or damage away from him in this situation.

Overall, though, I think it's worth emphasizing your point that it's a very hard upgrade to use well, and if you use it poorly it's at least a waste of points (even a torpedo is better, in many cases) and possibly a handicap.

Vorpal Sword said:

IMO a Green Squadron A-Wing w/ Expose is better than a Red Squadron if you're bringing the standard support models like Dutch / Garvin.  You get the extra defense of an A-Wing when you want it and the option to evade and boost, plus you can switch to X Wing firepower and survivability with Expose.  Of course, with a Green Squadron, I'm finding Push the Limits + a missile to be better than Expose, but the idea could use lots of extra testing.  

Regarding wedge, you can also contribute an action with Lando in place of dutch if you like, or you could use both but not really have an effective list IMO.  Honestly, I'd rather not spend the points on Expose with Wedge as he is already such a target and you really only gain an increase in offense with expose at range 2 and 3.  I think I'd consider dead eye + a proton torp over expose as you'd pickup more firepower at Range 2 / 3 and at range 1, 5 dice + Target Lock is literally a wash with 4 dice + Target Lock + Focus.  

Endgame124 said:

you got my gears turning to test out the A-wing with expose now.. PtL with Missle is indeed stupid good, there is no denying that.  but now on the flipside with expose, you can use it as many times as deemed necissary vs the one time missle shot for 1 extra point.

i just may be inclined to try out a list with 1-2 A-wings with expose (one to start), dutch and X-wings to fill the remaining points

it's truely a shame that Arvel can't use pilot abilities, arvel with expose would be just gross

executor said:

Yes, I've been frustrated to no end that Arvel can't have pilot abilitys.  Same with Horton and Garvin, only I think Arvel could really get a lot of use out of so many pilot abilities.

gr8 discussion here guys, keep it up. ive had a few months off playing x-wing but now my wave2 ships have arrived im getn back into it. only have 3 interecpters so will try a 5 ship build similar to hothies when i can.

next week im playing a Han shoots first list (han + 2 rooie x-wings, will give marsman a go on han).