Yeah, I just don't get the over-sized ship cards. Doesn't make any sense to me.

I was generally excited about this announcement because my LGS said they haven't put their store copy away since they opened it because there is always somebody playing it, but every time I've gone in there it has been lying dormant on the corner table. Apparently lots of people love to play it (when I'm not around), but nobody wants to buy it, so there is little hope of seeing organized play in this store (though I could try the store that's 3 times as far from my abode…) Looks like Vassal may be my best hope for competitive play.

Shadow this coming tuesday night at Sci-Fi City we're breaking out the Xwing!

Parakitor said:

Yeah, I've noticed people who are into miniatures games (at least from what I've seen) tend to be flakey moochers. They'll talk a good game but when it comes to actually doing anything they are very unreliable. They're not exactly go-getters.

I think the general unreliability is because a certain type of person is attracted to miniatures games. Games in general are aspirational; people play games because they like the idea of being the soldier, football player, fighter pilot, etc. Even people who actually do those thing in real life (pro football players, soldiers) like playing those games because it gives them another chance to feel like a winner without putting in as much effort as actually playing pro sports or getting shot at. 

Most members of society look down on nerds for being socially awkward but regard them as being smart. Intelligence is the main positive nerd stereotype; that's all a lot of them have to cling on to because otherwise they'd just seem like dumb losers. That's not to say there aren't "cool" people who are into nerdy things, but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about; we've all seen super nerdy people.

Contrary to popular belief, nerdy people aren't that much smarter than the general population (despite what they tell you). They have the reputation for being smart because they were able to do well in school. School isn't hard and doesn't take many critical thinking skills; it is just a matter of doing the work most of the time. It doesn't take a genius to read a book and write a few pages about it or parrot back some equations; it just takes time. An average nerdy person who doesn't hang out with too many people and isn't talented at anything outside of school won't have any trouble doing all the assignments and getting an A. Someone who is brilliant and very social and/or talented might be inclined to let a few assignments slip because they were too busy doing something more fun and get Bs and Cs. That brilliant person won't tie up any of their self worth in their test scores because those scores are mediocre and he has other areas to derive self worth. On the other hand, nerds will put a lot of value on those scores and grades because they might not have anything else that they are good at. Because test scores are correlated (not always strongly) with intelligence, the nerdy person will claim to be smart and use those scores as "proof" (they aren't strictly proof of anything other than being good at school or taking tests).

Superficially, miniatures games seem difficult and complicated so they attract people who are smart and who think of themselves as being smart. Playing these types of games can be an outward display of intelligence and are often used as such. In reality, most of these games aren't complicated beyond knowing the rules because if they actually were complicated, very few people would want to play them.

Take a game like 40k; the condensed rulebook is 150 pages long and there might be dozens of figures on the field at a time but the strategies and tactics are fairly straight forward. The figures might have different stats and different movement speeds but that doesn't really change much because everyone mostly moves and attacks the same way except for distance and power (everyone is rolling dice and measuring out inches). A lot of the "skill" involved is building the army in the first place and lists can be used from the internet or from friends for that (a lot of times the game designers make the strategies obvious). There really isn't that much thinking ahead; there is no need to predict your opponents actions ten turns from the present because there is so much randomness added from the dice rolls that it would be impossible anyway so the games largely take place in the present where people only need to think about the current situation. Games like Chess and Go take magnitudes more strategic and predictive ability yet have a fraction of the rules (they also have a fraction of the nerd stigma). No one builds supercomputers to play Warhammer. There are a lot of supercomputers out there designed to play Chess and Go.

Playing these games doesn't take being an expert in The Art of War despite how much some people might insist otherwise. Also, just playing a lot of miniatures games with friends won't make anyone an expert in gaming. The games aren't strategic enough to build much mental muscle. Playing simple games thousands of times won't make anyone a master strategist just like cooking thousands of hamburgers at McDonald's won't make someone a master chef. Acquiring skills just doesn't work like that.

I think I'm done explaining the situation as I see it. The problem boils down to the fact that many of the people that play these games vastly overestimate their abilities. When they play these games and are just average (or below average in the metagame because terrible people stop playing altogether which drives the average skill up) they instantly get discouraged and don't want to invest money in a game they are going to only be mediocre at because a large part of the motivation for playing these games is winning to flaunt their (pseudo) intelligence. This is especially true in a game like X-Wing that is a two player game right out of the box. Someone with the game will always have some way to share it with moochers. With most other games, they will be forced to buy their own miniatures so they will put in a little more effort to get better (as not to totally waste their investment) before getting "bored."

You know these people. They've played tons of games and always get "bored" with them before ever showing any real skill. They don't get bored, they just realize there is no way for them to totally dominate like they thought they would so they move on to the next game to see if that is the one which will allow them to really show us how smart they are. To top it all off, they use their experience sucking at many games as some sort of nerd cred like it'll make them good at the next game they'll fail at.

@Parakitor There is no negativity directed towards you. This is just an open post for anyone to read and any place I used the word "you", I used it in a generic sense and am not necessarily directing my comment at you. I just wanted to show solidarity with you in your frustration because I feel the same way sometimes. Also, I like typing out long ranty posts; it's cathartic.

 Not all miniature game players, just the moochers that talk game and don't back it up. Everyone here has actually invested in X-Wing so my rant isn't directed at anyone who would be posting here. 

Parakitor said:

Yeah, I've noticed people who are into miniatures games (at least from what I've seen) tend to be flakey moochers. They'll talk a good game but when it comes to actually doing anything they are very unreliable. They're not exactly go-getters.

I think the general unreliability is because a certain type of person is attracted to miniatures games. Games in general are aspirational; people play games because they like the idea of being the soldier, football player, fighter pilot, etc. Even people who actually do those thing in real life (pro football players, soldiers) like playing those games because it gives them another chance to feel like a winner without putting in as much effort as actually playing pro sports or getting shot at. 

Most members of society look down on nerds for being socially awkward but regard them as being smart. Intelligence is the main positive nerd stereotype; that's all a lot of them have to cling on to because otherwise they'd just seem like dumb losers. That's not to say there aren't "cool" people who are into nerdy things, but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about; we've all seen super nerdy people.

Contrary to popular belief, nerdy people aren't that much smarter than the general population (despite what they tell you). They have the reputation for being smart because they were able to do well in school. School isn't hard and doesn't take many critical thinking skills; it is just a matter of doing the work most of the time. It doesn't take a genius to read a book and write a few pages about it or parrot back some equations; it just takes time. An average nerdy person who doesn't hang out with too many people and isn't talented at anything outside of school won't have any trouble doing all the assignments and getting an A. Someone who is brilliant and very social and/or talented might be inclined to let a few assignments slip because they were too busy doing something more fun and get Bs and Cs. That brilliant person won't tie up any of their self worth in their test scores because those scores are mediocre and he has other areas to derive self worth. On the other hand, nerds will put a lot of value on those scores and grades because they might not have anything else that they are good at. Because test scores are correlated (not always strongly) with intelligence, the nerdy person will claim to be smart and use those scores as "proof" (they aren't strictly proof of anything other than being good at school or taking tests).

Superficially, miniatures games seem difficult and complicated so they attract people who are smart and who think of themselves as being smart. Playing these types of games can be an outward display of intelligence and are often used as such. In reality, most of these games aren't complicated beyond knowing the rules because if they actually were complicated, very few people would want to play them.

Take a game like 40k; the condensed rulebook is 150 pages long and there might be dozens of figures on the field at a time but the strategies and tactics are fairly straight forward. The figures might have different stats and different movement speeds but that doesn't really change much because everyone mostly moves and attacks the same way except for distance and power (everyone is rolling dice and measuring out inches). A lot of the "skill" involved is building the army in the first place and lists can be used from the internet or from friends for that (a lot of times the game designers make the strategies obvious). There really isn't that much thinking ahead; there is no need to predict your opponents actions ten turns from the present because there is so much randomness added from the dice rolls that it would be impossible anyway so the games largely take place in the present where people only need to think about the current situation. Games like Chess and Go take magnitudes more strategic and predictive ability yet have a fraction of the rules (they also have a fraction of the nerd stigma). No one builds supercomputers to play Warhammer. There are a lot of supercomputers out there designed to play Chess and Go.

Playing these games doesn't take being an expert in The Art of War despite how much some people might insist otherwise. Also, just playing a lot of miniatures games with friends won't make anyone an expert in gaming. The games aren't strategic enough to build much mental muscle. Playing simple games thousands of times won't make anyone a master strategist just like cooking thousands of hamburgers at McDonald's won't make someone a master chef. Acquiring skills just doesn't work like that.

I think I'm done explaining the situation as I see it. The problem boils down to the fact that many of the people that play these games vastly overestimate their abilities. When they play these games and are just average (or below average in the metagame because terrible people stop playing altogether which drives the average skill up) they instantly get discouraged and don't want to invest money in a game they are going to only be mediocre at because a large part of the motivation for playing these games is winning to flaunt their (pseudo) intelligence. This is especially true in a game like X-Wing that is a two player game right out of the box. Someone with the game will always have some way to share it with moochers. With most other games, they will be forced to buy their own miniatures so they will put in a little more effort to get better (as not to totally waste their investment) before getting "bored."

You know these people. They've played tons of games and always get "bored" with them before ever showing any real skill. They don't get bored, they just realize there is no way for them to totally dominate like they thought they would so they move on to the next game to see if that is the one which will allow them to really show us how smart they are. To top it all off, they use their experience sucking at many games as some sort of nerd cred like it'll make them good at the next game they'll fail at.

@Parakitor There is no negativity directed towards you. This is just an open post for anyone to read and any place I used the word "you", I used it in a generic sense and am not necessarily directing my comment at you. I just wanted to show solidarity with you in your frustration because I feel the same way sometimes. Also, I like typing out long ranty posts; it's cathartic.

 in regards to mini gamers being "moochers" 

from my experience with gamers with the 25+ gamers in my area and a number of mini wargaming forums, gamers are far from being moochers, most of the gamers around here will spend 3 to 4 grand on table top games a year, majority of it thanks to GW's high prices.

very common to find many gamers online do the same.

With wave two listed as Dec 23rd. they miss most of the Christmas / holiday sales . This appears to be something to keep the game in the front of people's minds . until wave two . While not overly excited with the premiums . I hope it will bring people to the store and build a solid play base . Got a new y wing for my birthday ( Orange one)  and I need people to fly a pair of y's against .