That's cool. One thread oughta do the job until the game's actually announced, anyway.

 I've played a fair amount of each incarnation of the game, and it seems to me they both had strengths and weaknesses. The d6 version was really easy to learn, and character generation went very quickly. I enjoyed the flexibility of the system, but the number of dice used for experienced characters, and the damage done by lightsabers at that stage of the game, was pretty unwieldly.

The d20 versions kept things in check better on the high end, but the class-based system always felt a little artificial. It was also much more complicated in terms of non-d20 players learning how to make characters.

D6 had an excellent starfighter combat system, and I'd like to see a new RPG tie into the miniatures game for ship-to-ship battles. A book on starships, with stats, deckplans and customization rules, would be excellent.

For eras, focus on the trilogies in the core book. I've enjoyed much of the Expanded Universe, but that can be handled in supplements.

Finally, I'd like to see good adventure support, to help bring new players to the game.

-Nate

Nate said:

This is a big one for me, too. If I'm gonna be forking over all this dough for X-wing, I really want those minis to be fully compatible with the RPG. Of course player characters should have more options in the cockpit, but if these ships/cards can be used as ready-made mooks in the RPG, that's a win/win.

As for capital ships not being included in X-wing, but being pretty much necessary in the RPG, I say that's just fine - since fighters and capital ships don't interact too much anyway, any capital ships in the combat could just be considered to be 'around'. They could fight each other with just dice and storytelling, while the fighters duke it out on the table.

This assuming we don't eventually get a tactical capital ship minis game, too... 

So, i don't think this is the year of the RPG.

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=201&esem=1

Heres hoping something come our way

This is, what, their fifth RPG set in the Warhammer 40k universe? Does anyone think perhaps this one could be a testing ground for a system for the Star Wars RPG, should it ever come up?

"As Imperial Guardsmen, your characters will be called upon to undertake dangerous missions deep behind enemy lines. Your squad might be ordered to infiltrate an enemy base to acquire vital logistical plans, or to quickly set up an ambush against an incoming xenos convoy. With missions as varied as the galaxy’s innumerable warfronts, you and your squadmates must often rely on nothing but your own grim determination and your faith in each other"

Swap out some of the crucial words and replace them with Rebel-related ones, and what have you got?

Whatever they decide to do about producing the RPG, as long as it's interesting it'll most likely get my money. I've only ever played Saga, but that hasn't stopped me lavishing money on the other WotC or the WEG books. If they produce something that has an easy-to-remember rule set, stunning art, and infinite expandability, then I'll most likely be hooked. I imagine they'll just re-use the art commissioned for X-Wing or the LCG, anyway, as there does seem to be an interchangeability within their game-families, so that's one thing ticked off the list, at least!

The one thing that's putting me off, though, is the thought that it might be like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. I foolishly spent a hell of a lot of money on that to see what it was all about, and the idea of a core set costing upwards of £70 to just get you started with the game really scares me. While the components can be fun, I do feel that in a RPG they can distract and get in the way somewhat...

I don't think it will use the 40k RPG system. It doesn't strike me as one which is well set up for the style of play a Star Wars game is likely to want: cinematic, heroic and streamlined. The 40k system, as much as I like it, isn't those. Its grim, bloody and a bit too detailed to properly represent Star Wars. Star Wars isn't the kind of genre where you would want to be worry about the bonus for fully automatic fire. That's why the WEG system looks like it suited the setting quite well, even if it had flaws, as it is fairly fast and loose.

I could see it using the WFRP 3rd, but I suspect it would have it's price point lowered in order to have broader appeal as it is such a big license.

I must admit, I made that post with no idea how the Warhammer 40k engine works...

 I don't know what the difference (if any) between Warhammer 40k and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is, but I just watched this video about WFRP (along with the 2nd part), and I must say I'm impressed. Playing an rpg with all those cards, custom dice and stuff would be a new experience for me, and I think might fit Star Wars pretty well.

Also, I notice that that game is designed by a guy named Jay Little, who's also designed a game called... X-Wing. This gives me hope that the X-Wing ships will be compatible with the rpg, which would be, if you'll excuse a dated expression, rad. 

WFRP 3rd uses a dice pool system, but unlike the Story Teller system, it uses dice specially made for the game, all in lots of different shapes and colours. The base dice are dependent on your stats (one for each point, and which vary depending on your approach to the task, either neutral, conservative, or reckless), plus the occasional bonus dice for training in skills (but different better ones), plus some basic negative dice depending on the difficulty. Added to this can be less significant bonus and penalty dice depending on more minor factors. Foll them all, check the symbols. Some cancel out others, and if you have any basic good ones left you succeed, if you don't you fail.

There are also bonus and penalty symbols which often cancel each other out, but if you have any left over can give you even further boosts or bad things happening (and this is regardless of the outcome of a roll, so you can have a successful roll with another annoying thing happen, or a bad roll which still gives you a little boost).

I quite like it (and I am not usually a fan of dice pool systems), and frankly I like the bits that come with it (the cards and the like) which have caused all sorts of complaints an uproar in some places. However, they do push up the cost of the game (even the special dice make it less approachable), so I woulc expect a bit of a reworking as a suspect FFG would want to mass appeal this game, so I would expect a core game aiming for about £40 or so, rather than the £70 of WFRP. That is the main reason I am not sure they will use the WFRP system, as I am not sure you really can do it properly for that kind of price point.

Oh, sorry, you were saying you didn't know the Warhammer 40k system. It is a percentile system. To pass a test you try to roll equal or under your characteristics (modified by circumstance and skill). Human stats average about 30. The combat system is by no means one of the more complicated ones, but it deals with a lot of crunchy things which seem below the interest of Star Wars as a setting, and it isn't very heroic (combat can bring even the toughest guys down quite quickly, and often quite randomly).

To me the main thing they would need to work out is the Force. I played the d20 system, in which Force users had to expend Vitality Points to use their abilities. The problem was that enemy attacks would reduce your Vitality when you took damage. While this did provide some game balance to keep Jedi from dominating the other characters, it does not make you feel like you are playing a Jedi from the films. Having to spend precious Vitality to do something as simple as feeling the Force to detect other Force users was annoying & often not done because is wasn't "worth it". The Jedi I played was a lightsaber combat monster, but I had to ration my Force use or else leave myself with a "glass jaw" by depleting my Vitality through Force use. It was impossible to create a scene like the ones in the movies because of this mechanic. I have faith that FFG will figure it out.

borithan said:

That presumably explains away one of the early rumours I remember floating around somewhere of the RPG going to be based on the percentile thing.

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

I think however they represent the Force through game mechanics, it won't please everyone!

Something as basic as the Force Point system from Saga Edition would work fine for me, the more Force Points you have giving you access to more, er, Force-related actions per round or whatever. I just hope they realise that, since the advent of midi chlorians, only Force sensitive characters should be able to have a Force Point allocation. All that tosh about it representing the idea that the Force is in everything just didn't wash for me - yes, it may be in everything, but not everyone can use it, according to Uncle George, after all. I think I house ruled in the end that only Force-sensitives could use them.

I just really, really hope they don't go into all that Force Unleashed rubbish. With one belch, the Secret Apprentice kills another couple of enemies, and all that nonesense...

In thinking about the previous ship combat systems, I've realized that part of my dissatisfaction has stemmed from the fact that they tried to treat all ship combat as the same system. I really think that there need to be different rule sets for starship and capital ship combats, with mechanisms to connect the two of them. Starship combat works really well with the fundamental air combat game mechanics, but capital ship combat really needs nautical game mechanics to get the most out of it. But, maybe FFG will come up with something new and innovative that bridges the gap appropriately. They've already done a lot with the ship building mechanics, mass combat, and crew management in Rouge Trader and Deathwatch (and will probably develop more interesting infantry and armor combat rules in Only War). So, hopefully, some of these concepts will be applied to whatever system they go with for the Star Wars RPG.

I can definitely see them using the system they have in WFRP. The dice mechanics, careers, party sheets, and other components could work really well with the Star Wars franchise. Even the magic system, which includes risks of being effected by Chaos, could translate well into the use of Force powers. For example, if your Jedi uses the dark side to increase his power, you must add negative dice to your dice pool, which could potentially bestow dark side effects (cards) on you.

A friend of mine and I worked on seeing how Twilight Imperium might work with the WFRP game mechanics a while back. We found that it had a lot of exciting possibilities and translated very well. So, I’d be in favor of FFG using the same fundamental mechanics in the SW RPG.

spalanzani said:

Now see, I disagree. I don't think Saga Edition Force Points represented using the Force. It wasn't a case of the character consciously using the Force to improve a skill or add to an attack roll. The decision to use Force Points was made by the player who is controlling the character. While the player intends the Force to help the character do better by using the Force system, the character is unaware of the Force and probably doesn't know the Force is guiding them unless they are Force-sensitive. It represents how the Force guides all living things, whether they know it or not. And not just living things. The Force is in the "rock, the tree, between the land and the ship." Even droids could be affected by the Force. R2-D2 and C-3PO meeting up again has to be viewed as destiny and the Force is what controls destinies in the Star Wars system. I think Saga Edition handled these issues nicely because it allowed all characters (except Yuuzhan Vong) to be influenced by the Force in their actions via the Force Point system, while allowing only those trained in Use the Force to directly interact with the Force and manipulate it through skill checks and Force Powers. Notice that Force Powers and skill checks are separate -- you don't have to spend a Force point to use the Force or activate Force Powers, which again implies to me how the Force Point system is inherently different from manipulating the Force.

In summary, yes. No Force system will please everybody and this is a prime example of how we view SE Force systems totally differently.

spalanzani said:

Midichlorians...   Taking a mystical force & explaining it with a biological symbiote was one of the WORST things Lucas ever did!

I agree with the Force Unleashed power level being inappropriate. Good for a video game, not for a Role Playing Game. Although I wouldn't mind an expansion with high power level rules that people could use for an over the top game once in a while. I don't think a campaign like this would be true to the setting nor very fulfilling; I'm thinking for periodic breaks from a normal campaign for a little wacky fun.

Alpha Chaos 13 said:

Yes, but doesn't Obi-Wan say on A New Hope, "The Force is an energy field created by all living things." (emphasis added) While I'm not wild about midichlorians, it's not like George Lucas changed his mind about the way the Force works. He just added another layer of detail that ticked a lot of people off for some reason. It's not like we consider mitochondria separate organisms, so I don't see why midichlorians should be any different.

Woah, sorry to derail the thread :)