I agree with BangBangTequila. I don't much care for their extreme sue-status, but I think allowing a change from their incorruptibility only creates an even more unique snowflake. Bleh.

(And of course, no Grey Knight ever bathed in blood except when their battles got really tedious)

You know what else might be a fun story?

An Inquisitor or Space Marine Chapter finding out about the Grey Knights bathing in blood, and having to deal with it.

Seeten said:

Having to deal with it in this case largely means going on the run in hopes that the Grey Knights have better targets to deal with, because when they don't - you're dead. The Grey Knights are among the most over-the-top elements, and compared to them, just about everyone (including most AA Chapters) are expendable. I don't like the Grey Knights - too absolute and too extreme in the fiction (I'm not talking about being extremists in-universe - that's fine - I'm talking about the way they are presented) for me to enjoy them as a story element - but that's just the way they are in my eyes.

Finding out they are ALL chaos tainted, to the man, might be a fun high level story. Might need to bring in AA chapters, set up an elaborate trap, etc.

Might need to stuff their political connections too. I dunno, it'd be a high level story for sure, and probably has nothing to do with Black Crusade, I am guessing this thread was for a PC claiming he was a former Grey Knight.

I think the idea of a fallen Grey Knight is interesting. Obviously it would be an incredibly exceptional circumstance, given how rigorously screened, indoctrinated, trained, and monitored (by themselves) they are, but if it makes for a good PC (or NPC) in a campaign, why not?

My feeling is that they are demon hunters. That is what they do, hunt demons. This does not mean they are utterly and completely incapable of being corrupted. They are just given the basic tools needed to do their job. An elite team of demon hunters isn't very useful if they're prone to being possessed/mind controlled by the creatures they're hunting on a regular basis. It's really just like being an untouchable. They can't be possessed, but that doesn't mean they can't be tricked/manipulated into betraying their ideals.

There is only one way to be completely, 100% immune to corruption, and that's to be the Emperor of Mankind. Unfortunately for the Grey Knights, that position has already been filled.

HappyDaze said:

I don't know about that. I don't think it's a linear hierarchy in the Imperium with the Grey Knights sitting at the top. They're just highly trained, exceptionally well equipped specialists that have one specific job. It doesn't make them more important to to the survival of the Imperium than other Astartes or even the Imperial Guard or Navy. A lot of good 1,000 Grey Knights will do if there's no Imperial Navy and Guard to stop Abaddon's next crusade coming out of the eye of terror.

The right tool for the right job. Hammer doesn't beat saw, they just do different things.

Capt_Dymock said:

The thing is that there are so few of the Grey Knights that it is hard to parse them down and have some of them in lesser story capacities. Organizations like the Imperial Guard and Navy have hordes of throwaways - in terms of story needs - and authors can even throw away entire Chapters of Astartes (so long as they are not a previously named and established Chapter), but no such room exists with the Grey Knights.

Well regarding the much-maligned new fluff. Over the years, when talking about Grey Knights, it was always made clear and pushed to the fore, that they were incorruptable ultra-purists, and so on. I liked it, you liked it, we all liked it. But over the years, the novels, Inquisitor, and FFG's line have made quite clear that being a big puritan doesn't work all the time. It strips a potential weapon away from the wielder, even as it makes them less susceptable to the lure of Chaos. The Radicals are right and sometimes you need to use Chaos to fight Chaos. To close that warp rift, to fell that daemon, whatever.

So shall the mighty Grey Knights curl up in to a feotal ball and weep like children when they hit one of those situations? Because their mandate is to keep the Warp away at all costs, no sacrifice being too great to stop daemonic incursions, rifts, and overlaps from happening. So they can either make a glorious charge to their demise as a result of their failure… Or they could suck it up, and dirty their hands a little to complete the last handed down to the by the Emperor himself.  So don't be surprised when they've got something requires them to sacrifice the still beating heart of a virgin to banish, or some other means that is 'radical', and they go right ahead and do it. It would be counter to the character of Space Marines not to carry on, doing what is required of them to secure victory. (even if it's as dumb as annointing yourself with the blood of some Soriritas)

Well congradulations, you like Matt Ward's Grey Knights more than the original (I know, I know, we're all supposed to hate EVERYTHING that Ward has done, but tell that to the many people who love the new Necrons).

And re: blood… every chaos god, and a bunch of other things love (and practically requires) blood sacrifice. The stupid thing with the Sisters is no more worshipping Khorne than it is worshipping Malal (in fact.. it'd probably be more the latter than former… oh my, Grey Knights have fallen to corruption by Malal!).

- Brother i think I have a better solution then sacrificing a 100 of them every time

-yes?

- Well you see, women have this cycle every month…

 I don't hate everything Matt Ward has ever written be default because he wrote it, I read the new stories and rules, scratch my head going "who the hell…" then find they were Ward's. He has earned my dislike, because he somehow managed to score the role that Gav Thorpe managed to maintain with about as much wisdom as I've ever seen. Gav Thorpe made many changes to the stories over the years, but he did so predominantly* by adding to the history, not doing a 180 and saying "Nuh-uh, wouldn't it be cool if this fan-favourite chapter of incorruptible super-heroes made invulnerable to the lure of chaos by rigorous training and as much ritual and faith as it is possible to have and instead have it be due to a cheap gimmick involving the sacrifice of the only female body of the Imperium to be truly heroic."

They were incorruptible back when they didn't bathe in blood, for you who continue to bring that up. I agree that they are no longer, and as a result will not be purchasing anything Grey Knights related until they bring back the chapter I love.

As an example of Matt ward's stuff that I don't hate, his new Necrons. He hasn't changed the Necrons from what they were, he added new Necrons to enhance the flavour and storyline potential of the race. While it isn't all great,  love the initiative and potential opened up by this move. So, amidst the sea of "Goddamnit" I send a floating bottle contain the burnt and torn scrap of parchment bearing the words "Nice one."

HappyDaze said:

Ahh, yeah, I see what you're saying now. It's true from a story-telling point of view that you can kill many thousands of guard and navy, where killing a single Grey Knight should be a pretty big story event. Having Grey Knights involved at all should be a pretty big deal.

However, I don't think that should prevent a PC from playing a fallen Grey Knight in BC. Though it would make sense for that to become a major part of the campaign. I doubt the Grey Knights will let that go. It's more or less a matter of time before they catch up to him.

PnPgamer said:

This is Matt Ward: http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/425fac2f545b65c50dc5527da89bc821.png

is there a word for being a fanboy of something in some universe and thinking that they are the best in said universe, solely based on the fact that he likes them most? 

There must be a TVtrope of it somewhere?

PnPgamer said:

Fgdsfg said:

That.