@Lynata - I doubt they will make Grey Knights weaker than DW characters. While I would have liked marines in DW to have been a little less potent, that's not the direction FFG chose.  But in theory all 3 lines are in the same system/setting.

My guess is they will be on par, but have psychic squad mode powers. That's what would make since to me. But I haven't played TT since 2nd Edition, but that's what I remember them to be like (a whole squad counting as 1 psycher). I am interested in seeing how they integrate the material. The book should be a useful guide for anyone wanting to mix Deathwatch with Dark Heresy.

Lynata said:

I can see where you are coming from.  If correct in your prediction this just confirms that they have got themselves in a little bit of a mess with the four core rulebook system.  I certainly see them as a whole rather than individual parts and i am already disspoianted when i see different stats for the same creatures from CA to DW (although it is sometimes explained away as different strain/genus).

Having all four core settings compatible is the only saving grace to this system they are currently working with and at the moment i think they are only achieving semi-compatability without a lot of work from a GM.

If Grey Knights are 'weaker' than DW marines that will slightly irritate me because it is clear that in the background they are in fact a step up in uberness.

Replicant253 said:

If you are talking about Genestealers, yes, every time they have been published they have been slightly different and given a new strain name. I think this is the ideal way to handle Genestealers.

 I also have no problem with some minor overlapping if it is necessary for the game to work as a standalone system - I actually wish they'd have an entry for the "basic" of most/all opponents (Eldar/Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau, Genestealer/Gaunts, SM/CSM) in EVERY core book so that GM's at least have some conception of what the game designers thought a good conversion of the basic stock enemy would be, which they could then tweak themselves to provide the more esoteric members of that enemy race, without having to own and crossreference every book in the FFG library.

Lynata said:

Like it or not, a powerful precedent has been set, and if Grey Knights end up being weaker than DW Marines, I would not be the least bit surprised to see an uproar from the community. That said, if Grey Knights are designed with the goal of having them be capable of functioning with parties of regular Ascension characters, then I would expect FFG to provide them with mechanics that serve to buff the rest of the party alongside them.

Faydra said:

This is definately the proper hierarchy.

Setting aside the arguement over whether Deathwatch marines and their equipment are overpowered, off-canon, or anything else, because that's your OPINION Lynata, one that a good many people disagree with you on, myself included. And we've debated it accross the length and breadth of these forums for a good while, until I just got absolutely sick of your shit...

Anyway, I doubt they'd include Grey Knights as a playable option for use alongside Dark Heresy characters, them being a secretive order of daemon hunting Astartes, they sound like they'd be even more difficult to include than a more 'normal' marine from Deathwatch, even considering the higher power level involved with Ascension. I wouldn't be surprised if they were statted up as NPC's though, in fact I'd be a bit dissapointed if they didn't have that.

Now with that done, expect the book to focus on the Ordo Malleus itself, their weapons and tricks of the trade beyond the few iconic things we've gotten so far, like Daemon Hammers. And of course there'll be the customary alternate origins and career ranks, and new Cell Directives.

 When it comes to Grey Knights I would really hope that when the time comes that FFG will flesh them out it will either be an expansion to either Deathwatch or Dark Heresy.

Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunters

Dunno about the supposed ott´ness of DW Marines. To me they don´t seem so.

A marine is in every way above and beyond DH acolytes. Just like an officio assassinorum assassin (like a Callidus or Eversor assassin for instance) is above and beyond a DH acolyte assassin.

I also see no issue with the wargear (other than internal balance issues with DW wargear maybe, like standart bolter vs storm bolter, etc.). Yes an astartes bolter packs more punch than one designed for regular humans (and the DH stats are craptastic, even when compared to a las gun, I admit), so what? The thing is larger probably for reasons other than fitting proportions (as in not looking strangely undersized).

Imo DH characters don´t have to and should not match with space marines (not one on one anyways) but that´s just me. Yes there are Inquisitors (not acolytes) who even wear terminator armour. Those armours are millenia old relics, everyone a unique masterpiece, which probably can´t be recreated and only a handful of them exist in the whole Imperium. Those are similar to astartes terminator armour in terms of portection, etc. But unless you´re one of the most powerful inquisitors in the Imperium you won´t ever see one of these.

Regarding the differences between regular marines, death watch space marines and grey knights. I think things get a bit blown out of proportion here.

Death Watch space marines are "just" veteran space marines. Take the first company (or equivalent formation in non codex chapters) of any chapter and you´re good to go. Death Watch marines in terms of power are veteran marines, period.

Then you got the Grey Knights, again they are not much more powerful than regular marines. They are psykers, but the regular grey knight is not on the level of a Librarian, so no "OMFG imba kickass warrior-wizard-paragon of awesome" if you get the drift. Most are merely able to perform psyker abilities as a squad (libbies do that on their own).

They do have better equipment. Where the regular marine has a bolter and a combat knife, the regular grey knight has a wrist mounted storm bolter and a nemesis force weapon. Their armour is of higher quality too. No better protection vs normal attacks but more extras and something vs psker attacks as far as I recall. And last but not least their training standarts are higher.

Basically a grey knight vs a normal marine is like a special forces soldier vs a battle hardened regular trooper.

And lastly lets not forget that unlike the TT, in an RPG we are able to portray individuals. So in the lore, there are awesome warriors who are just regular "rank and file" by rank. The sergeant is not autmatically the best fighter, and a DW, or GK marine is not automatically > than an a regular one. On average, yes, but the differences are much smaller than some people make em to be. Most of it is "know how" and experience. GK´s know how to deal with deamons and how to resist their influence better than anyone else. Same with DW vs aliens (especially against those which are not as well known to the imperium as, l et´s say the orks are).

Well, looks like I was wrong, you will be able to play them. I don't really mind that though, especially because of how it says it'll be compatible with Deathwatch.

I can hardly wait for the book to be out now, the news about Grey Knights is just the icing on the cake. Delicious double-chocolate cake.

In Demon Hunter there will be rules for Grey Knights fon Dark Heresy (Ascension level? I don't know) and ADDITIONAL rules for Deathwatch.

I will not surprise if GK for DH will be weaker than GK for DW.

Well, while I shouldn't make assumptions in consideration of how the last one panned out.

I'd put my money on the Grey Knights of DH being Ascension level characters. Whether you'd need the Ascension book is another question though.