I guess I wasn't entirely clear. The question is this:

Will Black Crusade make you end up spending more money on FFG products or not? Will you buy the new BC books and keep the same level of interest in the previous systems? Consider this topic a poll, I'd like to hear from you guys.

Alex

 I am already a bit picky when it comes to buying new stuff for W40k. It really annoys me that there are loads of different corebooks, I am a one corebook lots of splatbooks kind of guy. The more books that get released that I see as "parallel", the less of them I will buy. 

Lucifer216 said:

It  definitely wasn't.  They were hinting at it before Deathwatch was even out on a podcast.  Granted, that doesn't mean they didn't start work on it until after Deathwatch was done, since it does take a long time to get through editing and layout to publishing.

But even Deathwatch hinted at new games in the works.

Bad Birch said:

Agreed, I didn't buy the DW corebook. I just didn't like enough in it to shell out the cash for it. I did however really like the first DW module, which had some great setting fluff. Point is I'm now firmly checking books before buying them, some I'll buy, others I won't. This is quite a change for me, as I used to buy the books sight-unseen - I just don't think the quality warrants that any more. IMO.  

ak-73 said:

I wouldn't expect it to make me buy more, or less. I suspect it might mean there will be a slow in output for some or all the other 3 lines over time, and that could mean I buy less ... as I have a general dislike for playing evil campaigns. I'll give the books the same chance I'm already vetting each new book with though. There could be good setting fluff and Chaos notes I might like. I'm quite pleased the warp storm is the one between Calixis and Koronus, that could be handy.

It is possible that FFG hopes to use this game to lure a new market to 40K. There are gamers I know who play nothing but evil games, and they might just see this as their entry into 40K role-playing. Or else just getting more money from 40K role-playing. Either way, it looks like FFG has another hit on their hands, based on initial feedback.

Two asides, first as a game store owner I can tell you that D&D4E is a total bomb, and that the only books we keep in stock are the 3 core books, at one copy each, and all other books are special order. D&D4E may have made the game easier for newbies, but it drove away the vast majority of their players. Second, although we don't sell much WFRP, I think it is one of the most innovative game systems to come around in quite some time, and I wish FFG would make more products like it. It appears to sell well in other areas (otherwise they wouldn't keep making the expansions), but I can understand why long-time fans of the first two editions would be against it.

I think Wizards would disagree on D&D 4e being a bomb.  Everything I've heard says it is at least as big a success.  They just went for a new market instead of the existing.  And the 'essentials' line has made it even more successful.  The failure of a store here and there to sell it is hardly evidence of it being a bomb.  My local store it's a HUGE seller, with multiple groups playing it every week in the store alone.

And 1.5 Million in such a short time?  Keep in mind the usual RPGs not D&D 1000 sales is a success.

And this will be a success, a big one.  Just like the other three.

 I am not an authority on this subject, but it has been mentioned in the past that this strategy of releasing lots of lines has the benefit of being interesting to a wide range of different people. The criticism leveled at games with one core book and a miriad of support tomes is that it is less approachable because new gamers have too much of a mountain in front of them to climb and so don't get interested. On the DH forum at the moment there is a thread where a guy is asking which books are essential for a player, and then he lists 6 or 7. Funny how much material has already been generated  that could be seen as confusing for (not just) the new player.

Unfortunately, for me, I will most likely just buy it outright. You see, Im a 40K RPG Addict.

But not everyone is. Friends of mine who really rallied behing Dark Heresy initially went forth and bought Rogue Trader and the consensus at our gaming table was that the book was lacking in feeling and depth and was, IN OUR OPINION, boring.

No one even lifted an eyebrow at Deathwatch, except of course me who bought it. And for me, Deathwatch has only one part that I actually look over and over again and that is the bestiary.

In esence, FFG has made some nice books (Radical's Handbook, Creatures Anathema, Edge of the Abyss, Into the Storm) but when it has come to "RULE" books (Ascension, Deathwatch, Rogue Trader) the general feeling I get from my group is that FFG is lost.

To me, it seems Black Crusade would find a bigger audience from being a supplement for all three pre-existing games. I really am not looking forward to 50 pages of new character classes, 50 pages of repeated rules, 50 pages of another armoury.

Now if it has new mutation tables, expanded corruption rules, NEW and BROADER Sorcery rules, a kick ass Bestiary and the careers are easily converted/compatible with DH/RT/DW (not the almost the same but not quite useable current status quo) then I will be very pleased.

The book has a place in the 40K Universe, Im just not sure that that place is as its own game line.

But it is about time for FFG to release a rules manual that covers the general 40K universe and system. One that covers the entire tier structure (Tier One: Ranks 1-8 <Dark Heresy>, Tier Two: Ranks 5-12 <Rogue Trader>, Tier Three: Ranks 9-16 <Ascension, Deathwatch>).

Just saying, again.  I almost guarantee this line takes it to Rank 20 or beyond.  There's been hints in existing books.

But yeah, sight unseen buy for me too.  I'll be waiting in line at Gen Con for it like I did for Rogue Trader and Deathwatch.  At least as soon as I quickly get a couple other first day releases from smaller companies to read as I do.  :p

 I think it is a relatively sound decision, but will need to look into it.  With my current Rt game going into the forseeable future, this product line may be something I buy for the day the Rt players have had their fill, and want something entirely different.  

Maritime games already has multiple DW core book owners, and one guy getting every supplement, so I will prolly take my turn to get every RT book and possibly this so that the club has a fleshed out collection on hand from the Gm pool.  

The best outcome of this, is that they have a 'conversion' system, allowing the corruption of characters from existing systems (but not in as cack-handed a fashion as in Ascension *shudders*).  

Also on the finally note in the Op regarding a Tau or Eldar book, I think that would be the bad business decision.  Personally, as a GM, i would not run a 100% xenos games in a million years simple because Tau is going to turn into weeabo heaven, and I haven't seen a well roleplayed Eldar since the beginning of pretending we were space-people.  It turns into the dnd mentality of 'like a human but', which, to be honest, is best done from a humans POV, not as a facsimilie of 'alienness'.  

But I digress.  Over all, i look forwards to this, but I will want to have alot more information before I money on the product.  Assuming FFG guys read the forums, I would like to note that even a hint of the following (you must maintain the integrity of the release, as I understand) would be neccessary from my POV to make it worth buying :

- Main opposing forces, maybe name 2 of 3 or 3 of 5.  Don;t give the game away, but we'd like to know what's going to provide the conflict.

- Degrees of involvement.  Ultra-violence? Subterfuge?  is the whole range of chaotic infiltration and outright hyper-violence going to be covered?

- Systemic Conversion?  RT's falling prey to the fell powers, Deathwatch marines consumed by the need to kill?  

- Last but not least; target age for audience?  Gm guide to content management?  

Thanks for the OP ak, and i hope that this has been useful!

ak-73 said:

Something you need to consider: not all purchasers of the previous systems maintain the same level of interest in them. Not every customer who bought DH is still buying every new supplement - or even any of them. As time goes on the newer books become increasingly niche.

So basically even a DH player may be more willing to spend his money on the new core books than on (for example) Blood of Martyrs. I know that I'm not particularly interested in the 'career' series of books that FFG is releasing, whereas I'll almost certainly buy at least the BC corebook to see what it is like. So yes, FFG certainly has something to gain here.

Well if it was a sound business decision White Wolf wouldn't have done it with the original two World of Darkness editions...  But anyway, I suppose this works out well for my group if I try to drag them into 40k Roleplay again.  I like Rogue Trader, I like the premise alot, but for my group (who are 4th Edition Hack and Slash guys for the most part) Deathwatch might be more to their liking (much as the idea of playing Space Marines STILL makes me froath at the mouth.)  Besides having something that interests them, this set up has the benefit of me saying "Okay we're playing Rogue Trader" and my group doesn't have go out and get another book because MOST OF THE IMPORTANT RULES are in Deathwatch.  I'd have to pass around the book to refresh people on Profit and careers but otherwise we're all good.

Will I buy Black Crusade?  Not sight unseen but if I like what the Dev Diaries say and/or I get a chance to skim a copy at my local B&N I might pick it up.  Which is alright, out of oWoD I only picked up Mage, Hunter, and Werewolf... leaving Vampire and Changling to players who cared about such things.

I just can't see a compelling reason why BC needs to be another rulebook rather than a supplement you could 'plug into' the existing 40k rpg lines. I've aleady got the three existing corebooks and I'm running a DW campaign.  Once the DW campaign is finished my group will probably move onto a different genre for a change of pace. If BC was a supplement then I'd pick it up in a heartbeat to mine it for ideas & antagonists in my DW game but another rulebook? no thanks.

MikeN said:

That doesn't mean there aren't reasons. You're just not aware of them yet. As more Designer Diaries are released, you'll get more info about the game and those reasons will hopefully come to light.

With the game only recently announced, I personally wouldn't expect many people to be much more than "faintly intrigued" by the game - afterall, you guys barely know anything about it. Only the briefest overview of the game has been provided, and that's not really enough to make an informed judgement. Trust me, I know - I didn't quite know what to think when I was first told of Black Crusade, but over an afternoon's discussion about the project (and other things) with Sam, Ross and a couple of my fellow freelancers, I got really excited about the whole thing. I didn't go into Black Crusade sight unseen, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to... so I urge patience. Hold on for a while, let the Designer Diaries accumulate to help inform your decisions and provide those reasons.