I would go with 1d5-1 on a push for a bound psyker. When you drink of the warp, sometimes it drinks something of yourself.

Limit max PR based on WP as well? If the librarian only has 57 WP, for example, he can't raise PR past 5, even if his Rank is 6 or higher.. This would, of course, make the upper reaches of psychic potential basically unobtainable to most PCs, but it might help curb the problem.

You could just remove Favoured by the Warp and Sanctioning from the Librarian's advance table.

ddunkelmeister said:

I had considered this, but as you pointed out, it doesn't make getting to top level psy rating impossible. In the end my Librarian players felt that this was a little overly harsh.

Coming back to the original question, have you found that psykers became overpowered in your game?

bogi_khaosa said:

 

This does sound like a good one, or at the level least making the effect level powerful. 

As I mentioned to ddunkelmeister above, did you found that psykers became overpowered in your game?

Naviward said:

We've never gotten past Rank 1, so I wouldn't know.

bogi_khaosa said:

Oops, meant to say 'making the effect less powerful'.

Sorry to hear that you've never got past rank 1, what happened to the games that caused that?

For us, we got to Rank 5, but then the Librarian effect was too powerful and it was felt by the players that starting from low levels with new characters (and no Librarians) would be more interesting.

Naviward said:

For geographical reasons, I'm limited to online games, which go slowly by nature.

Rank 1 Smite is fine.

Im commiting some threadomancy here but ohh well.

For me, I have a Librarian in the group I run, but he is super careful by nature with the psy powers.

I also took favored by the warp, rite of sanc, and warp conduit off the table.

 

So far I have not seen any problems. I also throw alot of hordes at the group. So it seems like the dev and the lib get tied down deal with them while the tech marine, and the apoth seem to end up dealing with everything else.

Referring to the original post, I know it's old but I wanted to clarify a few things.

Librarian starts with a Psy Rating of 3, only upon obtaining a new Rank may the Librarian gain a stronger Psy Power rating. At Rank 8, they can finally have a Psy Rating of 10. Rank 8 is basically a Chief Librarian and hero of the chapter.

When using Psychic Powers the Librarian chooses how powerful - Fettered, Unfettered or Push - this is very important but no matter what  just using a power could cause psychic phenomena (see page 187 of Deathwatch).

I have not seen many "anti-peril" talents. Even "favored by the warp" is perilous because you are still rolling on the chart. "Warp Affinity" is the same way. It doesn't prevent the psychic phenomena roll, it just gives a chance at making it less deadly. I have not really come across too much that let's you resist the effects of Psychic Phenomena. Even then, the Librarian might get a reroll but gains corruption points. FFG did a very good job limiting the Librarian. They are scary to have in your group and one that is throwing powers around spells doom for himself and his kill-team.

Power Levels

Fettered: Half Power. Strength of power is half (rounded up). They make a focus test as normal. No chance of triggering Psychic Phenomena.

Unfettered: Full power. Strength of the power uses full Psy Rating. Make a focus test to manifest like normal. If doubles are rolled on the dice the Librarian triggers psychic phenomena, regardless of whether he passed or failed his test… it is always dangerous.

Push: +3 to Psy Rating. Make focus test to manifest power. Regardless of what happens, Psychic Phenomena roll is automatic. If doubles are rolled the Librarian suffers one level of fatigue also.

Keep in mind if the Librarian is sustaining powers it gets worse. THE ODDS OF ROLLING DOUBLES ON A D10 IS PRETTY HIGH ACTUALLY. I think it is something around a 5% chance, about the same as rolling a 20 on a d20. Not exact as number crunching is my strongest point.

The Peril Involved

When rolling on the psychic phenomena table there is a 25% chance you are going right to the Perils of the Warp roll. There is basically a 50% of something very, very bad happening. Even some of the simple things on the psychic phenomena table can be killers. Insanity and corruption are constant threats. Librarians that ignore corruption, insanity and the threats will die quickly.

The Librarian Powers at a Glance

Even getting to Rank 3 takes time. A Librarian will only have a Psy Rating of 5 at Rank 3. Nearly all experience must be spent on psychic powers to really push into the realm brought up by the original question. Sticking to the rules is the most important thing to restrict a Librarian. There is no need to add or change things, just read the rules. Since it was the first game you were playing, I doubt you were even Rank 3. But it's possible to get into Rank 2 pretty quick so we will say you were dealing with a Rank 2 Librarian using Smite.

To use Smite, you make a Focus Test modified like ranged attack. Lets use it Unfettered (PR 4). Let us assume the Focus Test succeeds. He deals 4d10 energy damage with a penetration of 4. It will affect everything (even allies) within 4 meters and he has a range of 40 meters with the ability. So an 8 meter radius explosion of energy occurs at impact. The Smite will have a penetration of 4. That pen is going to break even with most standard Xenos armor. Not the Tyranid warrior or anything above a grunt… who will have around 8 or so. You will deal 4d10 minus 4 to a tyranid warrior, it will definitely not kill him and you just risked your life to do it by not rolling doubles on your focus test. Now the great thing is this… the player might start loving the damage… and fail a few rolls here or there and cause some insanity and corruption… that's what it does. I'm telling you right now… that in three different games I have seen the Librarian become a problem more than once. In one occassion a Librarian was drug off into the warp after pushing to get a massive hit… when you push you always roll on the table.

Conclusion

The rules in the book work. A Librarian will get corruption points and most likely a few insanity points along the way. The rules that govern librarians are in place and they work great - you should always use them. There are three things that really affect the Librarian - the psychic phenomena table when using powers and stronger than 1/2 Psy Rating, the insanity gained and the corruption gained. At 100 Corruption the character is lost forever and corruption never goes away. You can remove insanity points but not corruption. There are other rules outside of the Core book that you can do more with too.

It would take a very powerful Librarian to fire 10d10 smites without losing his soul to corruption after just a few game sessions. Librarians are not too strong. The best thing you can do if you want to limit them is focus on the buildup of corruption if you wanted to.

Rather than houseruling the crap out of librarians, you could just use vast hordes of doom. A psy rating 10 librarian smacking a giant horde with his blasty power of doom will hit for 1d10+10 magnitude damage. I can get a tactical marine breaking 50 magnitude damage in a single round with a storm bolter. By the same logic a tank will out range the librarian by alot, but that tank is gonna cry when the devestator's krak missles are done with it. Try hitting your players with combined arms forces. Just my two cents.

Cryhavok said:

I also try to avoid house ruling to limit a player. The smite ability at a PR 10 is actually pretty insane. Range is based on the psy rating. It would be 10d10. with a pretty massive blast radius. I believe it would be a total of 20 meters across (10 meters out from the blast point) with a range of 100 meters. But then again, every roll has a chance to pop up a psychic phenomena with doubles rolled on the Focus test. Your probably going to get plenty of chances to hit a rightous fury also with a pretty easy chance. But we're talking about a Rank 8 Librarian, that's a pretty experienced character right there.

 

Mindforge said: I am familiar with smite, but you seem to be unfamiliar with how hordes work. Smite, when used against a horde will do 1 magnitude of damage per psy rating and then because it is an AOE psy power it will do another d10 of magnitude damage. Note that this is magnitude damage and not the number of wounds lost. The horde rules differ from fighting groups of individules so that they maintain balance. Smite will do a tone of damage to individuals and groups of individuals, likely killing them all. On the otherhand, that horde of a thousand gretchin is only going to be losing a relatively small number of lives to the smite but the heavy bolter of the devestator, the storm bolter of the tactical marine and the dual lightning claws of the assault marine will rip that horde to peices in seconds. The horde rules are at the begining of the adversaries section in the core book, after going over them look up talents like storm of iron, whirlwind of death and bolter drill, then check out metal storm ammunition and see how much more deadly guns are to hordes than psy powers. As to range, smites range at pr10 is 100, it goes no further than that, meanwhile a player with marksman and a bolter can hit things at 270 meters, psy powers are relatively short range compared to guns, and most tank main guns will be at short range before your psy powers can even hit them.

Cryhavok said:

Right and I agree with you. I understand completely how hordes work and smite (or any psy power for that matter) would only deal 11-20 magnitude damage. For a single action from one player that's pretty good. I was just stating a few general facts. Also, the danger of using psy powers a lot against a horde, you're going to roll doubles at some point.

As far as a heavy bolter with metal storm rounds (blast 2). Storm of Iron doubles his magnitude damage. He still needs to get his degrees of success - ROF 10. Bolter Drill gives him +1. So it, possible to get all the hits necessary, well 8-9 of them anyway. So if 8 hit (a really good roll) he would be able to dish out some pretty insane damage against a horde… far more than a Librarian. I already understand that. but more commonly - he will have 2-4 degrees of success dealing 4 magnitude damage per round. He will commonly be dealing 8-16 magnitude damage. I think all in all the heavy bolter and the Librarian would still be on pretty even ground - due to the fact that the Librarian doesn't need 'degrees of success' in order to hit with the power. A Blast 2 doesn't give +2 damage per round just +1 because it is explosive damage right?

 

I actually prefer the strom bolter for this. With two to four degrees of success your hitting with four to eight shots. Metal storm rounds make each shot a blast 2 hit, so each of the average of six hits will hit for two damage, putting us at twelve so far. Explosive adds one more. Devestater ability unrelenting devestation adds 1d5, we can average that to 3. Storm of iron doubles that to 32 magnitude. Maximum, with 5 degrees of success would come in at 52 magnitude. The only thing a tactical marine would lose from that would be the 1d5 from the devestator ability, and with marksmen a marine could do this from outside the range of smite. The minimum with only one pair of shots from the storm bolter hiting is going to hit that horde for 12-20 damage from the devestator, or just ten from the tactical marine. Also note that, thanks to the recoil supression in astartes armor, you can dual wield storm bolters maxing out your potential magnitude damage at 104, easily laying waste to almost any horde in a single round.