I loved Deciphers LOTR ccg when it first came out but only played the fellowship expansions. After that it started getting bogged down. I've tried the Ice me ccg but found it too heavy going though I can see the potential it had if I was to take the time to play properly. The problem with both games and the main reason for their downfall and this is something the Star wars CCG also suffered from is that they simply got bogged down in there rules. Each new set would add new rules so by the time you have 6 or 7 sets 'never mind 20' the rules are starting to get cumbersome.

                  Also I found that each new set would be that little bit more powerful with it's cards than the previous set making previous cards less effective. A good example here is the hunter mechanic of deciphers game brought in I think with return of the king set. Each character with hunter gets +4 against non hunter characters. Immediately any old set is obsolete and completely overpowered. 

                 For me these are the two main reasons the two games are no longer on shelves. Bogged down under the rules. And 'certainly in deciphers case' new sets just over powered older sets meaning that it was pointless trying to integrate all the sets into usable decks.

Spirit, I agree with you that additional rule sets are very cumbersome (wasn't the SWTCG rule book for the reset like 100 pages? uggh) but the power curve for each set is going to increase (hopefully slowly) and you'll replace some old characters.

Oh I agree with you completely Hates but I do think that it's one of the things that brought down the decipher game. I know a lot of players that it put off. 

Ahhh - never played Decipher's LotR past the first 2 sets.  Loved the art but had issues with Decipher.

Yeah I never got past the first two or 3 sets either. I stopped just as the two towers cards came out. The Eowyn promo card was the only two towers card I got. 

Both were fan favourites at the gamestore where I go war/board/cardgame frequently. Neither are still played (bar the occassional exception).

I remember both and though I never bought them, I did like them. The ICE one I played once or so against a deck of a friend. He had bought a lot of first 'block' decks on the cheap. And I liked the 'look' of the Decipher cards too. (though ICE's interested me more)

spirit said:

Just for info: Middle Earth CCG (ICE) & Star Wars CCG (Decipher) stopped being produced as the companies lost their licences. This is the reason they are no longer on the sheves and for their downfall, nothing to do with rules or sales.

Yes the rules did become increasingly complex, but they make for some of the most flexible & richest ccgs ever made. Not for the casual gamer, it's true. 

Shub-Niggurath said:

Such a sad day for ICE. the MECCG is still for me far and away the best CCG I've played, and I still collect it when I can (I think I need something like 20 more cards to have a complete set of every expansion). For me, the game had two major selling points: 1) balance. There really were no cards that by themselves could win you the game. Even the One Ring had major downsides. This weakened somewhat with the Balrog and White Hand expansions, but still holds. You're hard pressed to come up with a killer or broken deck. I've only come across 1 or 2 that were really evil. 2) the create your own story aspect of the game. Being able to really explore Middle Earth; plus, who wouldn't want to lead a band of orc and trolls on a daring raid into Rivendell, only to get their butts kicked by an 'Elf lord revealed in wrath' and the Master of Rivendell himself?

Ornendil said: