I got to play a game with my roommate and a few buddies the other day and I have to say it only reinforced my previous experiences.

For our game, we used the first scenario in the book (Reconnaissance) and it reminded me of a game of chess with balls.  Lots of longitudinal fire lanes, but because of the complexity of move+move, move+ shoot, shoot+shoot, etc, no one person's action was given.

We did two-on-two, with each side split evenly (I controlled one half of the attackers with Hot Dog, Recon Boys and The Gunners and my teammate had Pounder and BBQ Squad w/attached Bazooka Joe while our opponents had Ludwig, Battle Grenadiers and Laser Grenadiers lined up on my side with Luther, Recon Grenadiers and Sigrid von Thaler on the other flank).

The only deciding factor was the fact that I'd played the game once before.  Not that I took advantage of that and cheated - there were plenty of instances where I consulted the rulebook and overturned actions that favored my team - but only because I was the only one in the room that had EVER played a game like this before.  And I'd only played a demo at GenCon where I picked up in the middle of an on-going game for someone else.

It was close at the end, and we all had fun.  I basically demoed the game for three other guys that had never played ANY kind of table-top strategy game and we all had a great time.

Any game that you can pick up in less than one half an hour and have a great time playing can't be bad at all.

I will still buy into this game and after reading the command squad rules it doesn't seem the game can truly be given a fair review until the first expansion arrives. I do get feeling  the command squad should have been in the base game but maybe price/size became an issue alternatively they wanted to bulk out the 1st expansion or maybe they wanted to layer the games complexity or they just wanted to make more money. The truth is probably lies in the mixture of the four although I would like to think it was the first :)

Just out of curiosity and to get a better comparison, what other miniature games or war games do the reviewers really like? We've had two negative reviews, and it sounds like they're the more mini savvy guys maybe, but not necessarily, and we also don't know which games are their personal favorites.  This might give people (like me) a better feeling for how our tastes align, and therefore how much I should take your review to heart.  So, for instance, Sandersn, you said you have played 40k, Warmachine, and some others, but do you most prefer 40k, WM, or something altogether different?

Also, in general, if you feel the game tries to be something and fails, what should it try to be?  For instance, the mat grid and simplicity of the basic rules reminds me of a very simplified Monsterpocalypse, where there's a lot of reliance on combos and special abilities, but since design on Dust started 10 years or more ago, it might be behind the state of the art as far as the complexity mini gamers have come to expect, which is one feeling I get.

 I have played miniature games for over 35 years.  I started out loving games like Starfleet Battles, Battledroid (which soon became BattleTech) and various WWII miniature games/rulesets (many were Avalon Hill Games).  Over the last  few years I've been a Wizkids Battlemaster for Mechwarrior, ran regular events and demoes at local stores for Axis & Allies Miniatures, Axis & Allies: War at Sea, and various other games like Wings of War.  I played a fair amount of Warmachine (Cygnar).  And most recently, I was a Privateer Press Pressganger for Monsterpocalypse.

Also,In the past, I've posted a few fan generated scenarios for Star Was Starship Battles and Axis & Allies Miniatures. I'm thinking about doing one for Dust Tactics soon.

I enjoy playing Star Wars Miniatures.  Soon I will give Tannhauser another go now that the rules have been revised and new units are out.

I believe many people will find Dust-Tactics to be a fun game of itself.  The real question for many seems to be whether or not its a fun $100 game?  I have seen it listed for as low $70 online.

It has simple rules.  It doesn't have Opportunity Fire, Suppression Fire , Morale and armor facing/penetration rules.  But I don't mind that.  Dust Tactics plays fast and is down right brutal.  And every expansion will add more units, options and tactics.

Do I wish it was cheaper? Yes.

Do I wish it had painted figures in the standard set? Yes.

For me, the simple fact is that these big box Euro games are getting more and more expensive.  AT-43 cost less now, but it was relatively expensive for its time when it first came out, too.  I like the theme, figures, quality and gameplay enough to keep going.  And so far the people I have played with like it, too.

Since I panned Dust Tactics I assume some of the question about what else I play was directed at me as well.  I play miniature, board, card and Role Playing Games and have for well over 20 years.  At GenCon I also tried out the FFG games Battles of Westeros and Death Angel and enjoyed and purchased both.  Currently I have been playing a lot of Dominion, also really enjoy Pandemic, Agricola, Battlestar Galactica and anything from the Combat Commander series.  On the miniature side I am not a fan of the current 40k and Warhammer, mostly because I don't feel like chasing the rules, but I play Flames of War and many other fantasy, sci-fi and historical miniatures games. 

I felt that with Dust Tactics other than the miniatures, which I like, there just isn't much there.  The rules are just very, very basic.  If there were some strategy cards or more variations in the weapons used or some sort of hit recording for the walkers or armor saves or something.  I think the type of dice really limit the possibilities in the game.  The number of sides that cause hits are set and all you can do is add more shots or re-rolls, which they have already done.  So the difference between a machine gun and a pistol/grenade/knife is the range and how many dice you get.  When units get shot at they just get blown away.  Same for the walkers.  Yes, they have 4 "wounds" but if caught in the open at any range (most of the walker weapons have unlimited range) when someone shoots over 10 dice you are probably going to get evaporated.  The I Go, you Go nature of the game and nature of cover means that someone has to be the first one to wander out of cover shoot.  They will either evaporate their target or in there turn get evaporated. 

In the games we played there wasnt any tension or excitement.  It was like a big game of chicken.  The rules REALLY need something.  This is of course just my opinion and like I said I REALLY want to like this game.  It's just so fast and unremarkable every game feels kind of the same.

I got a question for those who have played.

What is a scale comparison of the miniatures? I have seen/heard 30mm for the troops and 1/48th for the mechs but wonder if anyone knows what they compare to or what if any game system out there they could be used with.

I played two Demos at Gen Con.  I really liked the game for a number of reasons.

1. The games go really quick.  Things die very fast.  This means you could potentially get a bunch of games during say a 3 hour session.

2. The miniatures are actually really nice.  I do think the walkers may break easier than AT-43 walkers.  They seem a little on the flimsy side compared to them.  With that said, the overall designs are fun and eye catching.

In the games that I played, the infantry were really good against other infantry, but the special weapons guys sort of sucked against the Walkers.  I did like the Heavy Machine Gun special trooper.  The gun was great against infantry.

I found you could do a lot of tactics with cover, but since the board was small, usually if you had a clear shot, something had a clear shot at you or would with their next activation.

I would provide a much more in-depth review, but I don't have the game and didn't really read the rules while at Gen Con.

MiniatureReview said:

You probably already know this, but just in case, you can download the rulebook from the Dust Tactics page.

I played through a full scenario at Gen Con and enjoyed the game alot. I bought it.  I'm going to be playing my first game since Gen Con tomorrow night and introducing a friend to the game. We have been playing AT-43 (which I still love) but are giving a few other games a go for the sake of variety.

I'll have a better formed opinion tomorrow evening, but based on the game I played at Gen Con I think the game plays just fine. Yeah, it's on the simple side, but I don't mind that. It's nice to have a game with cool minis that plays quickly.  But, that being said, I wouldn't mind seeing an "advanced rulebook" or some such down the road. The proposed PDF alternate rules are a start. I also would like to see a hardcover scenario book like Descent and Tide of Iron got.

The planned expansions have me excited for what's to come.

I have now played the game 10-15 times and we are on the 4th scenario. While not that apparent at first, the best way to play is to not come out blasting. Once you learn each unit's capabilities (for both sides) you learn the best tactics. I do like the fact that getting hit by twin 88s will mess up your units. Too many games ignore the harsh reality that weapons are meant to destroy the enemy and not chip away at their hit points. Just don't walk your BBQ suad into the open and have them obliterated when a strider steps out and fires. 

A recent game saw one of my striders continue to blast down a barrier to capture the oponent's back row by the last turn. I kept getting terrible roles while my other units dug in in  hard cover trying to repel the enemy from trying to get to the wall destroyer. The wall came down but I was 1 square away from victory at the end of the game. 

Nothing wrong with an action-packed game that is easily played in under an hour.

Blamzero said:

Sorry I haven't replied to this sooner.

Currently, I prefer the new version of Warmachine and Hordes.  While the game system does have problems, I think that the want Privateer Press handled the beta testing, the roll-outs of the new army books, and the overall feel for the game rules makes me a fan. 

Comparing 40K to Warmachine: 40K has a good universe (although at times very stereotypical or inconsistent).  They have, for the most part, good visuals and miniatures and they do have authors like Dan Abnett to bring the universe to life in the novels.  Privateer Press has a huge advantage in the quality of the rules though since 40K has enough loopholes to make it (to me) unplayable in a tournament format.  Also, the Privateer Press magazine No Quarter contains actual content instead of page after page of rehashed articles and advertisements for new products.

I've recently started to play Malifaux and its ok.  The first iteration of the rules were confusing and messy.  Good miniatures and some good ideas, but it seemed like the rulebook was put together and not reviewed nearly enough.  Not enough playtesting either.

And as for Monsterpocalypse, I was a huge fan when it came out.  I don't like the collectible aspect of it, but the game ran smooth once you learned all your special rules and it has a lot of tactical aspects to it.  You had to be aggressive with your monster but not hang him out to dry or else you would get smoked.  I think the game would have been helped more with individual reference cards (which we made ourselves) instead of the fold-out cheat sheet they gave us.

But anyway... how does this all relate back to my experiences with Dust Tactics? 

To me, the game is too simple right now.  The two forces aren't exciting to play.  There's really no army composition aspect to the game right now because it's just the starter... but it's $100.  Given the expense involved in the other minis game I mentioned, I don't expect a ton of options at this point.  But there's the problem when compared to the other systems: they roll out more variety when they launch (like Malifaux) or have that variety built-in because of years and years of play.  Maybe once those other box sets and rule systems are released, Dust Tactics will compete with the big boys.

Right now it doesn't.  That's a contributing factor to my enjoyment and I don't like not having the option to buy more stuff... make my game more enjoyable by adding new units and new tactics... add the army building aspect to the game.

I'm not telling people not to buy the game.  They may enjoy it.  They may be playing it in a different style than my play group does.  To me and my friends, it's just too simplistic.  I personally do not enjoy it right now.  I wish I had spent my $100 on other games.

In response to your question, it's not my type of game.  It currently lacks variety.  Movement and actions are too simple.  Move+Shoot, Shoot+Move, or Sustained Fire... that's about it.  The hand-to-hand combat system feels forced and extremely simplistic (I hate using that word so often - maybe I need a thesaurus).  The ranged combat system has potential with the range vs. quality of armor balance, but none of that seems to matter now since everyone is the same in the basic set.  The robots are great looking, but die so easily to sustained fire from another robot. 

Just because I don't enjoy it, doesn't mean you will not.  There is potential here and it may be fun in the future.

After playing through the scenarios included in the book this weekend, here is my review.

In my experience, compared to games like 40K, Dust Tactics is missing the individual unit customization and sheer lack of numbers.  Part of that comes from the fact that you are stuck with what you have in the starter box, unless you buy another starter box or they offer units for sale apart from the starter.  Consider these thoughts about customization: suppose you have a unit of space marine scoutsto a certain extent you can customize their officers, their gear, and their numbers.  You might be able to deploy them to battle differently depending on things like pods or scenario specific rules.  Dust: Tactics simplifies this by giving you something I find incredibly helpful, especially after playing Warma-hordes, Chainmail, DDM, and Star Warsa handy dandy reference card.  All those games sacrifice some customizeability for speedGranted, Warma-hordes infantry units may have different numbers of units depending on min-max cost for units, unit attachements (40k, think command squads, warhammer, think champion, banner bearer, musician, etc.)and weapon attachments, and what not, but you still get to speed things up because you don't have to customize leaders or units.  WYSIWYG.  I like that.  I can plunk down five infantry men and a hero, know that it will cost a predetermined number of points, and know what they can do, and what my oponents units can do with the data card.  Because the cards are dry erase compatible, we had no arguments about what special abilities and one-use weapons were used.  We didn't need to clutter up the battle field with counters because we were able to mark damage or healing on the card.  Now, the reason why 40k players should want this box is so that you have a small Imperial Guard force to demo 40k for your friends without having to pay 90$ for a unassembled Blackreach starter, or pay for an IG battle force or reinforcement box in which the figs aren't even assembled.   

I was converted to enjoying tiles based games after one too many fights about distance and range and placement.  Tiles set up the battlefield quickly cut off arguments about movement and range, and help you understand where your guys go.   You don't have to argue about if some of the guys in the unit are in cover, or if only some of them have line of sight. 

Lastly, we were able to play a game in a half an hour once we had the rules straight.   Each game, we understood that there is more nuance to move-move, move-shoot, shoot-shoot (sustained fire) than we realized.  We also appreciated the depth of choice that comes from understanding when to use sick spells like "berserk" with the laser grenadiers or the risk in throwing the equally sick napalm walker right up on top of the laser grenadiers because you don't want your opponents anti-infantry squad at full strength.  We also appreciated that the relative small scale of the battle field means that each unit could be meaningfully involved in combat from the get go, and not have to worry about half an hour of maneuvering.  We liked having to decide whether or not to charge in with knives and handgrenades at close combat to try and finish off the last hit on the hero and wipe out the flamethrower, or decide to hang back.  We liked making sure that we could tie up ranks and files with long range guns and constraining our opponents strategic choices.  In that sense, this is definitely like chess with balls, as someone said earlier.

I thought the game was a hoot.  My 13 yo nephew fell in love with it as this was the first miniatures war game (or can I count Pirates?) he'd ever played.   If anyone wants to off load the game on ebay, why not post in this thread, as I'd love to get another copy and begin being able to customize my armies now.

fwiw,

guac. 

One should see Paolo's interview on you tube and you will understand why the game is designed it that way. 

Guac - Thanks for the review.  I truly am excited about getting this as it will allow me to play a minatures game with my kids (9 and 8) that we can set up and enjoy rather than spending about an hour setting up and only dad enjoying and they get bored.  Thus, Tannhauser and a few others sit looking for an adult group to play against!  ;-)

But, I also liked hearing that there are nuances in this game that will keep folks coming back for more and more.

Looking forward to my copy coming in October!

Just purchased the Regular Edition from a gent. on eBay. Yes, the wait was killing me BUT what sent me over the edge was 3 things that I knew would make this worth picking it up now then later...

1) It comes autographed. I know, I know, big deal, but it always neat to have something signed by the person who made it happen.

2) It comes with the sticker sheet you could only get at Gencon. Now will you be able to purchase these down the line, who knows but it really makes your tanks stand out from the rest. That and if you purchase more than one copy of this game you can tell your tanks apart.

3) This really had me stroked, it includes the two promo units, one green and one grey. From the picture the grren figure is aiming his sniper rifle (the grey one I can not tell what she/he is doing).

The cherry on top is that it only cost me $99 plus shipping (which comes out to being even cheaper then me picking it up from my local gaming store...when it comes out). The seller is in the same state as I am so that means that this should be here no later then the middle of next week. I am very happy and look forward to playing with my friends and my girlfriends family as this seems to be a game that we can play over and over again hearing that games go by fast and very little set up time.

My question for those who know, do the promo figures come with stat cards so you can use them with this set? Or do they show you their stats in the instruction book or the mission book? Hmmm, very intresting....

Just got my copy at "le monde du jeu" Paris, France. awesome is the word!