Sulpures said:

Sulpures said:

Any response window.

ktom said:

Just to confirm, though, I CAN say "I'm responding to the starting of x phase by playing this" even if there are no other responses to the phase beginning?  And also confirm that this would happen before Shadows?

"Response window" is bad templating. There is no such thing as a response "window." There are only response STEPS in other windows (player and framework.)

You CANNOT play it during a save/cancel step. Since it does not use the word "save" or "cancel" so it cannot interrupt the initiation and resolution of another effect. Another reason response "step" would have been clearer: Step 5 is the response step/window. Step 2 is the save/cancel step/window. 

But yes, any time you get to a Step 5, no matter what type of action window it is, you can use the card. That includes the "begin phase" framework window. However, you get to Shadows before you get to "Step 5" of that window. You cannot play it before the first card comes out of Shadows. (Although, since each card that comes out of Shadows has its own response step, you can play it in Response to the first card coming out of Shadows).

And if the Shadows card itself has a response (E.G. King's Landing Assassin), does it go to First Player to decide if the Shadows card gets to respond or the opponent gets to play L&L?

ktom said:

Going to have to agree here, both Martell decks been working on greatly revolve around their powerful responses. However, do believe this came out due to the high use of Maester decks and nice that it is a big hit on them. Not sure though how best will be used though, I mean how many decks don't want to trigger some responses, although can plan it around your own still could hurt yourself just as much or more if planned poorly. 

imrahil327 said:

The FAQ says that the first response after a player action (such as bringing a card out of shadows) goes to the person that is left of the one who initiated the player action.

sWhiteboy said:

ktom said:

I understand what you are saying, but the card itself does state "any response window".  Pretend "window" is replaced by "step".  The type of step that is open should not matter considering what the card says.  Considering Save/Cancel responses are a response step, it would be included as part of "any response step", no?  This could be a case of card text overriding rules.

Honestly, it will almost not matter really anyway because the save opportunity for the opponent should occur before Little and Less can be played unless it's MIL claim or some other framework where FP responds first(like discussed above).

I disagree with your interpretation.

Yes, the card say that you can play it during any response window, step, opportunity, whatever. However, the rules say that only Responses that use the words "save" or "cancel" can be used in the save/cancel response window, step, opportunity, whatever. There is no reason to think that the "Response" effect on the event that you trigger - which does not specifically use the words "save" or "cancel" - is exempt from that rule because they do not, actually, specifically conflict.

There are two different requirements for triggering a save/cancel Response - a valid response opportunity and the word "save" or "cancel." Both must be true in order to use the Response in Step 2. The "can be triggered during any window" only bypasses one of those requirements. It does not bypass the other.

It's like "this character can be declared as an attacker while knelt" bypassing the "only standing characters can be declared" requirement, but not the "with an appropriate icon" requirement.  

ktom said:

I agree with that example, but not if the example said "this character can be declared as an attacker while knelt during any challenge".  The keyword to me is still "any".  Like I had said before, it probably won't end up mattering because of who has the first response opportunity… however it might matter in a Melee game.

Seems like this would matter quite a bit after a Valar.  If you can play it during the Save/Cancel Response Step you could prevent your opponent from triggering any of his saves during the same framework action where the Valar effect is taking place.  You also could as first player trigger a save of your own and then play Little and Less during the save/cancel response step of your own save response, which would let your save go through and prevent your opponent from doing the same.

If it truly was only during the Step 5 Responses then you'd have to play this during the Start of Plot window to make it an un-savable Valar, which would be before your opponent selected their plot and would obviously influence their choice.

Aside from the basic question of scope (which sounds its been answered to mean ALL triggered responses of any kind), this timing question seems pretty critical.  I generally agree with just about everything ktom says, but this card is already so badly templated and without precedent that it's difficult for me to say for certain what exactly you can or can't do with it.

Reldan said:

Well, if you have the first save, playing that card would create a normal response step (response to the save being triggered), so you could then use L&L in that step before other saves/cancels.

agktmte said:

ktom said:

I went ahead and sent the question in late last week. Damon responded this afternoon:

Little and Less is only to be trigger-able during the normal response window (Step 5 in the Timing Chart in the FAQ), not during the save/cancel opportunity.

During the Challenge phase, there are Framework Action Windows with the Framework events

1. Active Player declares challenge type and opponent
2. Active player kneels attacking characters

For the purposes of Little and Less, are these Framework Action Windows, including their step 5, there whether the active player actually declares challenges or not, or do they only open up when the Active player actually declares a challenge? As Framework Action Windows, they should always be there, I guess, but I'm not sure.

To illustrate, is the following scenario possible?

Player A (FP):
"OK, Challenge phase begins, no Response from me, any from you? No? Good. No Player Action from me. You? No? OK. Next up, Active Player declares challenge. I don't actually declare a challenge, but I'd like to play L&L in the response step of the window."