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2. AGoT Rules Discussion
The place to discuss rules, clarifications, bannings and erratta.
Moderator: FFG NateFFGAntonffgjafferffgjoshFFGStuartFFG_IanGeckoGood_TravelerThe Spaniard Topics: 3670 | Posts: 19214
Little and Less Event
Published on 24 October 2012 - 15:29:27

This is a future argument settler.

Little and Less

You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)

 

Just to clarify, this means that you cannot play events that trigger as a Response, right? 
If so, I really wish it said that more specifically because you don't play Responses, you trigger them.  You play Events, Characters, Locations, Attachments, etc. Better text would be "…players cannot play any Events that trigger as a response." if it only affects Events.

Not that I can think of any other card type that could be played as a Response, but I just want to be sure they didn't mix up terminology designing this event and don't want to add it to my deck assuming it works differently than I think.

~Haven't they learned to be as specific as possible? 

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Reply #1 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 09:32:32
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 I think it means all response from hand

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Reply #2 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 09:36:56

 

Bomb said:

This is a future argument settler.

Little and Less

You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)

 

Just to clarify, this means that you cannot play events that trigger as a Response, right? 
If so, I really wish it said that more specifically because you don't play Responses, you trigger them.  You play Events, Characters, Locations, Attachments, etc. Better text would be "…players cannot play any Events that trigger as a response." if it only affects Events.

Not that I can think of any other card type that could be played as a Response, but I just want to be sure they didn't mix up terminology designing this event and don't want to add it to my deck assuming it works differently than I think.

~Haven't they learned to be as specific as possible? 

I agree, the wording is sloppy. If they meant that players can't play Events with a Response, they should've said so. If they meant that you can't trigger any responses for the remainder of the phase anymore, they should've said that. The way it's worded, there's no telling how it works without asking FFG. Unless there is some precedent for the "play responses" lingo us puny mortals ain't aware of, in which case we'd have to wait for ktom to make an appearance.

This forum hates signatures

Reply #3 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 09:51:26
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It's sloppy templating on FFG's part.

The precedents would be "cannot trigger additional responses" or "no responses can be used" if it was intended to stop all Response effect.

The precedents would be "cannot play events" if it was intended to only stop events.

 

Since the template precedents that stop events only always includes the word "events," I am inclined to think that the word "play" was substituted for the word "trigger", rather than to think that the word "events" was left off the card entirely. I would treat it as not being able to trigger responses (as opposed to not being able to play events with responses) until the official errata cleans up the language.

 

There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

 - Dave Berry

Reply #4 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:03:01
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 This card has all my deck building senses atwitter.

[11/14/2012 10:07:06 PM] [REDACTED]: the game is just so much more fun these days with dennis involved

Reply #5 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:05:03

Thank you ktom. 

I just sent the following question to FFG via the Rules Questions page:

There is a new event named Little and Less with the below text:

"You may play this card during any response window.

Response: Until the end of the phase, players cannot play any additional responses. (Cannot be canceled.)"

Since you don't "play" responses, what kind of responses does this event prevent from being triggered? Is it meant to keep players from playing Events that trigger as a Response? Or is it meant to keep players from triggering any kind of Response for the remainder of the phase? Or is it something else entirely?

Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you!

 

I will post their response if and when I hear back from them.

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Reply #6 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:15:41
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 excellent, please let us know once penfold responds :P

[11/14/2012 10:07:06 PM] [REDACTED]: the game is just so much more fun these days with dennis involved

Reply #7 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:22:55

Already got an answer from Damon Stone:

"It prevents that playing (triggering, activating, using) any and all responses."

 

This event is going to be meta-changing I think.  It's a global Brienne of Tarth for Responses. 

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Reply #8 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:26:02
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 biggest winner is martell HH. they can recurse this event forever with Princes Plans and prevent all responses for the entire game. Nutso! I LOVE IT! To those prepping whiney posts…….you asked for a meta shake-up, now you got it. I applaud this event. GG Damon.

[11/14/2012 10:07:06 PM] [REDACTED]: the game is just so much more fun these days with dennis involved

Reply #9 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:41:05
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dcdennis said:

 biggest winner is martell HH. they can recurse this event forever with Princes Plans and prevent all responses for the entire game. Nutso! I LOVE IT! To those prepping whiney posts…….you asked for a meta shake-up, now you got it. I applaud this event. GG Damon.
Actually, Martell may be the biggest loser. They use a TON of Responses themselves, and the card stops all of them, not just opponents'.

Of course, it royally screws Maesters (the Agenda, and most links, are Resposnes…) and Siege decks. So it's kinda silver-bulletish, but still has plenty of uses if your opponents are playing something other than Maesters or Stark-murder.

One of the really fun things is that it is going to make people FAR more aware of the timing windows and when Responses can be played. For example, it's best use might be to go first in Challenges, finish all of your challenges (including Responses to them), then play the event as a Response in the framework action window where "active player" status changes to your opponent. (Oh yeah, that's an action window, which has a Response step!).

There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

 - Dave Berry

Reply #10 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 10:49:54
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 which brings up a question ive been meaning to ask. can you respond to an action that doesnt happen? meaning if both players pass actions in that window, can you still respond with this event?

[11/14/2012 10:07:06 PM] [REDACTED]: the game is just so much more fun these days with dennis involved

Reply #11 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 11:18:17

I wonder if this event will just eliminate the ability to use Responses during the challenge phase in Melee if everyone is running 2x - 3x of it.

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Reply #12 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 11:24:48
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dcdennis said:

 which brings up a question ive been meaning to ask. can you respond to an action that doesnt happen?
No.

dcdennis said:

meaning if both players pass actions in that window, can you still respond with this event?
No. Remember that the "Player Action Windows" that appear on the flowcharts are not action windows. They are placeholders to tell you where players can take actions if they choose to. It is the actual initiation of an effect that opens an action window. If no one initiates anything, there is no active window, so there is no place to Respond.

So, for example, if you don't use this Response in the "start phase" framework window that begins the challenge phase, and all players pass on triggering an action in the first "pre-challenge" player action window, you won't get a chance to play this event until the Response step of the "initiate challenge" framework action that begins the first challenge.

There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness.'

 - Dave Berry

Reply #13 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 12:04:09

If you want to make sure no responses at all get triggered during any given phase, all you need to do is play this during the "beginning of the phase" framework action window and you're set.

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Reply #14 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 19:57:21
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 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 

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Reply #15 | Published on 24 October 2012 - 20:05:48
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Sulpures said:

 I still have a question: can little and less be played during the save/cancel response window? 

 

all response window

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