Face Eater said:

The world being in a neo dark age, the living conditions being somewhat lower in the 41st millennium I think we can assume that most people are a little shorter than the norm seen through todays western eyes.

Also from the experience I have most special operations guys actually tend not to be big, but rather on the smaller, lean side than big bulging Arnie lookalikes. When your tall you get a bad back easily, being smaller and more compact actually allows you to pack more weight on when you have to mule it somewhere, and these guys do, its actually one of the primary characteristics of ops guys, being able to walk a long distance with a shit load of stuff on your back.

Space marines being 7 ft tall are in my eyes at least actually more like that, take the body shape of these densely packed 5' 8" guys and pull the scaler until he's 7' tall, thats IMHO what marines look like... Whoa sorry for the derailing there.

On subject:

There are ton's of different las gun patterns all produced by what is available locally, my take on the guardsman las rifle being different is that we are half a galaxy away, that is what the local guardsmen come equipped with here, a better pattern, newer perhaps?

As for the "stealer" well these are the "horde" rule version of them, meant to be mowed down in droves by our heroic (even by marine standards) protagonists.

Theres also a difference in the plasma pistol the rebel general uses. It does 2d10+8 Pen 6, with no mention of overheat or recharge. I wonder if this an indication that in deathwatch plasma weapons will be improved.

H.B.M.C. said:

There were differences in some of the stats of DH and RT, it doesn't surprise me that there will be differences between the first two and DW. FFG seems to view each new game as an opportunity to fix issues found in the previous games. They may simply have decided that the stats for genestealers from CA were inappropriate.

The fact is that in 40k there never has been a differentiation between marine weapons and everyone elses. The miniatures alone were always sculpted using the same bolters no matter the type of model. Only with DH did they invent this distinction.

There exists different types of bolt pistols, at least (althought the "civilian" type is fairly new sculpt). I think that SM Scouts, Baneblade and Chimaera commander and one of the new Commissar figures have the "Civilian" versions, and everyone else has the more badass Astartes versions, like all rest SM:s, IG commanders, and Commissar Lord.

A light armored vehicle should be between 8-15 AP

Light tank should fall in 12-18 AP

Medium tank 18-24 AP

Heavy Tank 24-30

Super Heavy 30+

Given that thick iron is worth 16 AP, and armaplas 32 (DH Core rulebook page 199, table 7-10: Cover types), these seem fairly reasonable. Althought I agree that Astartes bolters are overpowered. Tearing makes them so sick, and with Kraken bolts, you get pen 8! That is no AP 4+, but 3+!

But, having played the Tyranus Concleave Adeptus Astartes - marines for many games, I agree that enemies NEED more power to even hurt marines (ok, powerarmor gave them 10 ap in TC:AA, but they had worse stats and less wounds, but still!). The Horde rules are already nice, but I think that normal NPC:s at least would need to have a chance to wound without multiple Righteous Furies.

At least the Final Sanction's genestealers are called Lordsholm (what an name, btw!) Genestealers, and the heavy stubbers are water-cooled (how that increases the damage output?) -..

Dige said:

Simple. The simple act of firing  the weapon causes heat to build up through friction. Too much heat and you have a problem. Water cooling disapates the heat faster, allowing more to build up, allowing you to sustain a higher rate of fire and/or have larger slugs leaving the barrel faster.

I can Imagine that they've used this (the specific Genestealer species (which has been kind of touched on in 40K before)) as an excuse to make some stats for Genestealers that are greatly simplified. Seeing as they previously had everything that several books and probably a page or so of additional rules but they clearly ( and who can blame them wanted to include it).

As for weapon damage's, I can see them taking the chance to change things bearing in mind just what kind of armour and toughness they are going to be fielding. In many case's it's going to be covered by being different versions, full military gear, in some cases this might be a bit of ret conning. In my opinion somewhat overdue in some cases. The plasma guns being a case in point they've never been anywhere as deadly as they are in TT and considering what they are (regardless of  who weilds them) which esentially 'magic' weapons (cursed in way).

UncleArkie said:

Actually, Arkie, the stats in Final Sanction for the genestealers are not horde stats.  Those are for an individual genestealer.  If you look carefully in the title of any of the stat blocks, they will include the word "Horde" in the name; i.e. PDF Guradsman Horde Profile or Rebel Horde Profile.  Nothing else in the scenario is defined as a horde.

-=Brother Praetus=-

 @UncleArkie

There are ton's of different las gun patterns all produced by what is available locally, my take on the guardsman las rifle being different is that we are half a galaxy away, that is what the local guardsmen come equipped with here, a better pattern, newer perhaps?

Heretek! Everyone knows that a better pattern would have to be older.

@OldTimer

Theres also a difference in the plasma pistol the rebel general uses. It does 2d10+8 Pen 6, with no mention of overheat or recharge. I wonder if this an indication that in deathwatch plasma weapons will be improved.

Apart from the damage, I'd put that down to "It's a demo adventure, we have a finite page count and the GM only learns those rules for a single session of play".

Let's just hope that if DW does see a few revisions to basic gear that they're reflected in the GM Screen, rather than another copypasta job like the RT screen.

BYE 

KarmicCycle said:

Keep in mind, that based on the power levels of the games, the DH/RT lasgun will be used primarily in a Horde in DW.  So, against that ork, a paltry Magnitude 10 IG Horde (easily representing a squad, for example) will be doing 2d10+3 Pen 0, which has much more of a chance of getting damage through the To 8 of the Ork (even with some armor).

Here are the differences that I have noted between Final Sanction and DH/RT.

The Genestealers in Final Sanction have a natural armor of 2. The Genestealers in the Creature Anathma have a natural armor of 6.

The Astartes power armor in Final Sanction has a value of 8, same as that available to "normal" humans. In the DH supplement Purge the Unclean a Space Marine sergeant is mentioned and his power armor ranges from 10 in the head, 11 arms & legs and 12 for the body.

In the Creature Anathma an Ork MegaArmor is supposed to be 6 head, 10 arms & legs, and 14 body.

As I understand it Ork Mega Armor is supposed to be roughly equal in protective value to Space marine tactical armor.

It the 8 armor value used in Final Sanction an indication that this is just a quickie learning supplement and the later armor values will be increased or can the armor values in DH and the Creature Anathma be considered flukes? Perhaps Deathwatch will not be all that compatible with DH and RT.

Just wondering

My copy of Final Sanction has the Genestealers with:

Armour: Reinforced Chitin (All 6)

dvang said:

Same here, in  Creature Anathema they have R Chitin 4 (all).

Ork Mega Armour is supposed to be as hard as Tactical Dreadnought Armor (Terminator), thats how its done in the Wargame, with the exception of the Invunreble field.

The Power Armor in Purge the Unclean is Artificer Armor not Power.

Edsel62 said:

As someone else mentioned, the Purge the Unclean armour is Artificer Armour, not normal power armour, which is what Space Marines wear.

And as with the others, my copy has the Genestealers at Natural Armour: 6.

MILLANDSON said: