Atheosis said:

Ditto.

Well, I don't think that the Storm Wardens are that bad. Sure they are a walking stereotype, but still a step above the typical Ultra-clone chapters (with exceptions). 

The choices made show clearly that we need a chapter book ASAP. Because otherwise the game will face problems due to previously mentioned by others holes in chapter types (defense, infiltration/ambush). This book really lacks the Salamanders and the Raven Guard to be good (or the White Scars and the Imperial Fists ).

Jude Order said:

If they´re a later founding  isn´t it possible they weren´t told?

 Heavy indoctrination makes people inflexible, and thus not useful for the kinds of high-stakes, high-pressure missions that the SMs undertake.  The SMs have to be well-educated (at least in military science and heavy doses of intelligence on the enemy) because their purpose is to make small, surgical strikes at high-value targets in a rapidly-shifting environment.  You can do heavy indoctrination on the IG if you have to because they move slowly in large groups and take and hold territory.  Their need-to-know is fairly low, and they don't spend tons of time behind enemy lines.

Also, SMs have their own command structure, strategists, etc.  They have to know what's up, you can't program them into being killbots.

 Well considering that this is the cookie chapter that shows us how the chapter generation rules work it should be fairly simple and easy to access and understand as it is used as a model, its perfect for that. 

Arag said:

There are really no Chapter types. Some Chapters have a heavy lean towards one style of fighting, but they all do everything. They wouldn't be effective if they couldn't. Also space marines have personality so even a marine from the Space Wolves or Black Templars might prefer standing back and shooting.

Yes it's cannon that they use psycho-indoctrination to speed-teach (almost matrix style but not as fast) their skills and precepts the marine will need. They also use it for mind cleansing marines that might have seen "too much."  Unlike say, an Imperial Guardsman who is unlucky enough to fight something truely evil (like a daemon incursion), space marines are too valuable to just kill for knowing too much (ref: armaggedon 1).  However, this does not neccessarily elminate individual thought, how far the indoctrination goes is chapter dependant, with Ultras probably being at the top of the wipe out individuality and space pups at the  bottom.  Sons of Dorn I think is the only SM book I can immediately think of that gives us a view of what their psycho-indoctrination does (as much as I didn't like the book itself and thought it was the first time BL has put out Imp Fists that I didn't almost immediately like).

As for the Storm Warden chapter, have you not noticed that the "official" DIY chapters seem to be combo chaps?  The Blood Ravens from THQ are a mix blood angels/dark angels chapter, these look like mix ultras/dark angels, nothing wrong with that.  In fact, in what, the last 5 chapter revelation threads people wanted exactly this, NOT one of the normal 1st founding chapters but something FFG made.  Ta-da!  This isn't your standard DIY chapter either, as he worked with GW to make it, which would make it as official as you can get. 

BrotherHostower said:

The Blood Ravens are hardly a combination of Dark Angels and Blood Angels.  They have their own distinct identity that has very little in common with either (almost nothing in common with the Blood Angels in fact, aside from their name and appearance). 

The Wyzard said:

Errr... I don't think that the statement about "heavy indoctrination" really stands up to reality.  Of course, this is 40k and people often say that you should leave reality at the door.   I believe that if FFG goes with the "human Marines" model that it would be a weakness rather than a strength, at least from the background perspective.  On the other hand?  You would get some very Horus Heresy-esque characters. 

Kage

BrotherHostower said:

The Blood Ravens don't share anything other than red armor and the word blood in chapter name with the Blood Angels.

And if you look at their actual fluff, they are a librarian heavy chapter, and give librarians more authority than other chapters (to the point of librarian company commanders and I do believe the fluff references a librarian as chapter master as well at some point in their history).  So, no, not much at all like any of the other loyalist chapters outside of the Grey Knights...

A pretty balanced, Pendragon-mythos inspired chapter, IMHO. Including a brand new one was a good choice. Would have preferred the dark horse to be Raven Guard, but on the other hand didn't really expect that to happen (only 1st founding without custom shoulder pads won't get any special treatment anywhere). Doubt any of my players will want to roll up a Storm Warden, but they'll be nice to include as NPCs.

wow ... I have to admit, I was expecting something truly interesting in the FFG homebrew chapter.  But to my great sadness, I find myself in the same camp as most of the other posters ... meaning I am sorely disappointed in the result.  Yeah, it has some small RP potential, but ... it just doesn't rise to the level we had been given to believe we should expect.  It seems, to my humble mind, like a half-hearted attempt at a amalgamation of the Dark Angels and the Blood Ravens.  And even then, it doesn't, based on the DD, seem to be well thought out.  My apologies, FFG, but I was expecting more from you. 

Segmentum Tempestus = Storm Wardens

I'd hit it. With a shovel.  I guess alternative name was Shrouded Warriors, since there is a connection with Callixis and Segmentum Obscurus. Which would've been better, imo. More 'stealthy' that way.

Anyway, I am dissapoint, FFG. Too bland and colorless chapter. They truly do look like smurfs (and by that I really mean the smurfs from the cartoon), even more so than Ultras. I just like how all the new chapters have the amnesia of not knowing anything about themselves or their Primarch. But it's really nice that this guys can debate. That will surely prove useful when negotiating with Xenos and Heretics...oh wait...you get my point.

I guess it was pretty obvious to expect the 'big' 5, but man did I dare to hope for some new cool chapter. And since you guys had free hands to generate a truly unique, FFG chapter if you like, you messed it up by writing the most boring and all seen background material without anything interesting to add up in their fluff. And of course, custom chapter generation will be in DW GM screen, am I right?

My 2 thrones.

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Nah...

Those will be in the book with the really cool First Founding chapters, you know the hardcover that we'll see in April 2011 or later (based on the time difference between RT and LotE).

The DM screen will probably have something else, like vehicles or xenos.

I knew we were not going to get the Imperial Fists the moment that the Black Templars were confirmed, being as the Templars are an Imperial Fists successor chapter.   It would have been nice to get one of the "fast strike" specialist chapters such as the Raven Guard or White Scars, but it looks like we will have to wait on that.  In the meantime those that want to make such characters could go for Dark Angels that have served in the Ravenwing prior to Deathwatch service.

Still, since we knew there was going to be one brand new chapter in Deathwatch I was rather hoping it would be the Hammers of Retribution.  Oh well.  At least my beloved Dark Angels are in there.  I am a bit disappointed though, since I was looking forward to at least the temptation of some new and exciting chapter.

Let us all hope that the "build a chapter" rules are well written and become available soon after the core book comes out.  Perhaps a "Chapter Master's Handbook" with similar character background rules expansions as IH had for DH?  That would be potential bliss!