Hi fellas! Anyone with experience playing the ninth scenario from the battle plans book? Now, I'm in no way allergic to unbalanced scenarios in war games, as long as both sides have a at least a fair chance of winning. For me the most important thing is to have fun and what I value most is the storytelling aspect of war games. No wonder I have enjoyed this game so much. The scenarios are varied and interesting, and almost always reasonably balanced. I have to wonder though, what's the deal with scenario 9? Sure, I have only played it once, and I'm not a matrix gamer that can perfectly analyze a game at a glance, but to me it seems that "Razing the red fork" is a given victory for the Lions of Lannister. There is not much the Starks can do to stop the Lannisters from BBQ-ing at least two buildings, giving the Westerlanders an "automatic" lead of 10 vps or more. The poor wolves are hard pressed to accumulate that many vps in the five rounds of the battle. Especially since one of their two commanders is irritatingly slow (Slowjon Umber ). Red rank infantry commanders can be a real pain in a scenario where you have to cross half the board or more in order to do your thing. That Gregor is also a red infantry unit is a lesser problem in this battle as he has more than adequate opportunity to do his reaving work. Especially when he unleashes his "wind magic" commit ability. That one is really scary! OK, enough ranting, I look forward to hearing you guys' views on this.
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Hi again! I have a couple questions regarding this scenario (razing the red fork) or rather how some special abilities and rules used here really work.
1. First we have Clegane's commit ability. When a fire spreads "two hexes" I take it that you place a fire token in an adjacent hex and then a second fire token in one further hex in that direction. Would you agree or have I bungled it somehow?
2. Is there any restriction to which fires Gregor can cause to spread when he uses his commit ability? Must they be within his command zone, or can they be anywhere on the board? The same question can be applied to stuff like Robb Starks commit ability (auto hits on engaged enemy units). I mean, when it comes to effects like rallying or ordering friendly units the rules clearly states that only unit within ZoC can benefit, but when it comes to these more unique abilities I can't determine if ZoC apply or not.
3. It sucks to burn. Since you may not move into a hex on fire, we didn't allow units to attack units in a fire hex. Later I couldn't find support for this interpretation in the rules, but I still think it is a fair ruling. Anyone that can give a definitive answer to this question: can you attack a burning unit?
4. Holding the bridges. Since no objective tokens are placed in the bridge hexes during setup I think there is room for different interpretations as to how these hexes are controlled. OK, if I assume that Mr Kouba hasn't made a mistake and there is a reason that no objective tokens are placed on the bridges, my conclusion is that some other rules must govern these objectives. But what rules? There are none. We played it like this: You had to have a unit present in the bridge hex in order to control it. No unit, no control. (This really sucked for the Starks as they had to leave a babysitter on the stone bridge). Now, I'm perfectly aware that we could have played it altogether wrong. Please enlighten me in that case.
3. Haven't played this scenario yet, but we did run one with fire the other night. I initially thought as you did that you couldn't attack a unit on fire, but then changed my mind. There is nothing in the rules that would back this up. You don't necessarily need to move into a hex to fight (thematically maybe, but not in the game mechanics). In addition to this, we ruled that you can't counterattack when on fire, nor can you be forced to retreat since you can't move. Basically, the way we were playing, being on fire was no fun.
I just played this as Stark and got rinsed big time. As the new rules in the faq state that you place devestation tokens on top of fire tokens (not in place of) does that mean a building with burn limit 4 that has become devestated grants Lanister 4 points for the fire tokens plus 5 for the devestation? or just 5 for devestation.
With regard to the stone bridge I was confused there too. We just added a Stark marker on it at the beginning.
I really wish the guys who developed the rules would read through this forum and answer more questions, there is only 6 pages, it shouldn't take too long!!
I just played this scenario last night, so it was my first time playing with fire. But I think I can answer some of the questions in this thread.
Stark does not start with any objectives being controlled. He must move units onto those objectives in order to control them. For example, I sent my green cavalry unit to the stone bridge immediately to control it. Remember that units do not have to stay on those objectives. They remain controlled until an opponent's unit ends its turn there, at which point you change control markers.
The scoring in this scenario is unusual, but basically Stark accumulates points for controlled objectives at the end of each round and Lannister only gets points at the end of round five, the end of the game.
Lannister either gets 1 point for each burn level of each building or 5 points for each devastated building, not both. Otherwise, it would be insane. They already have 15 points of buildings within fairly easy reach on their side of the board and another 5-10 points not too far away.
Stark gets 2 points for controlling the stone bridge each round and 1 point for controlling the wooden bridge and 1 point for each building. So there is one building that you can occupy pretty much immediately with your archers on the stark side of the river. Then, by round 2 at the latest, you can easily control the wooden bridge. That should give you an easy 3-4 points each round, until Lannister's forward units led by Kevan can take some of it back.
As far as the reavers and burning. It's important to remember that you cannot set an occupied hex on fire and you can't enter a hex on fire, so the only way to have units burning is if the fire spreads into their hex, either through level 4 fires spreading or through Gregor's "wind" commit ability, which affects the whole board. I believe you can attack units on fire, can't see why not, but you may worry about fires spreading into your hex if you become engaged. Also, it is a viable defense for Stark to occupy buildings and the wooden bridge, as they cannot be burned if they are occupied.
Regarding strategy, you must focus on the reavers from the beginning or Stark will eat you up with an accumulated 3-5 points per round over the course of 5 rounds.
According to this answers from Kouba himself, controling bridges (without control markers) in this scenario means that you have to have a unit there.
I asked the designer and explained the complicated scoring rules according to his clarifications:
Battle Plan 9 - Razing the Red Fork: Greatjon should be Blue Rank. Because they don't have Control Markers, the Bridges are only controlled if a Unit is actually standing on them when they are scored, either at the end of the Round or the end of the game. It is easy to forget that the Wooden Bridge is scored for Stark once per Round and the Stone Bridge is only scored at Game End. At the end of the final Round, score both Round End and Game End Victory Points. Each Round, Stark scores Points for Buildings based upon the number of Control Markers that show Stark (Control Markers show which side most recently occupied the hex), which can still be scored even if the Building is on Fire. However, Devastation makes the Building hex basically a Plains hex and removes Stark's ability to score Points. An easy way to show this would be to remove the Control Marker when adding Devastation, remembering to keep the Fire Levels. Also, For Lannister, score either Fire Levels on Buildings or Devastation Tokens on Buildings, for 1, 2, 3 or a maximum of 5 points per Building (Either 1, 2, or 3 for Fire Levels or 5 for Devastation). Lannister scores 1, 2, or 4 points at the end of the game for destroying the Wooden Bridge (either 1-2 for Fire Levels or 4 for Destroying the Bridge, as the Fire Levels are removed after destroying the Bridge). Remember that Units cannot Advance or Pursue onto Bridges.
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