So, I've been thinking about Profit Factor. And I keep thinking "Hey, isn't each of these streams of income actually going to be a thing? A tangible (or intangible) deal that brings you vast piles of money? And wouldn't it be kind of cool if they could be pulled out and looked at, and when you got more, it would reflect what you just got?"

So.

Holdings!

If you have a holding as a source of profit, that does not mean you control it. It means you have a stake, an interest, a percentage. You get a share from profits, but could potentially get that holding to do something else instead of giving you money, whether temporarily or permanently.

DE-LOCALIZED HOLDINGS

• Fundamental Research: Gained by getting valuable and rare archaeotech or xenotech into the hands of researches, or aiding a research group in some way. When certain core pieces of technical research are used (and they are used often), you get a tiny cut of the take. You should note what kind of research it is (lastech, grav-tech, cybernetic, etc). You can choose to forego your "cut" where the research is being used in order to be shipped prototypes and samples of the end products - which will generally mean a huge arsenal of nothing special, but with the occasional truly odd item.
• Fundamental Exploration: Gained by being the first person to map entire systems or interstellar features, and releasing those charts into distribution in such a way that you always get a throne or two when the charts are printed. You should note the chart in question. You can forego this income from the Administratum to instead gather information on who obtains and accesses these charts - giving you a good chance, if you're in the region, to have a scattering of information on any ship you sight.
• Trade Route Basics: As per fundamental exploration, but for a travelling route; your share comes from use of said routes and charts, as a petty tariff. The profits can be foregone for the same purpose as above, or in order to promote shipping of certain (very rare or less) good on that route, making them one step more common there.
• Banked Capital: This holding represents pure money, banked and held in some system. You can convert other holdings into Banked Capital, and can convert Banked Capital into other holdings, as a matter o finance - this typically requires time, a number of commerce rolls, and so on - but it is possible to convert one holding into another relatively reliably in this way (all of them being valued at the same Profit Factor, that is - trading holdings while losing PF is easier yet).

HIVE WORLD

• Noble Family: For whatever reason (and there are too many possible ones to list), you have a small stake in the affairs of a planetary elite. You can forego these profits in order to gain social access of all sorts - invitations to the best parties, visibility among the elite, excellent guides to the local markets in rarities and archaeotech (easier 'find' rolls, not easier acquisition rolls), and so on.
• Heavy Production Facility: As a result of bringing in financing, supply materials, personnel, or acting as shipping agent, a share in such a facility might be given out. A heavy production facility will normally be dedicated to the ongoing production of a single military or industrial item, which should be named. You can forego these profits for a month to automatically succeed on any Acquisition of those goods, so long as the total penalty on the acquisition would not be greater than (the profit factor x10).
• Spire Docks: Through heavy trade, financing, or simply by building more docks onto a spire, a stake in a set of spire docks can be obtained. You can forego these profits in order to keep one vessel (or hull under construction) per point of profit securely docked and under work for as long as desired. With enough time (measured in months), simple components such as cargo holds can be constructed at spire docks - whole hulls cannot be built at such a location, though.

....Anyway. I have a whole pile more to type up, potentially. But, before I burn a whole pile of time: Useful to you? Got any ideas for cool holdings in this pattern? Etc?

 And, for anyone that likes this:

Way more on the RPGnet version of this thread.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?605588-40K-Rogue-Trader-Holdings-for-the-very-wealthy

I also toyed with this idea, but I personally wouldn't add additional effects to it. For me it would be more about giving an occurring misfortune a name and a cost in lost (or potentially lost) profit factor. E.g. "The Scintilla Trade Holding your dynasty owns just went bankrupt because the world the grain it's transporting comes from has been invaded by Orcs. You will loose the 3PF it generates unless you do something about it.".

 For me, the goals are:  

- To make profit awards more varied - something just name-changes don't do.

-To make the whole "vast and influential dynasty" thing actually *feel* like one.

-To put in a kind of control for "what happens at really high PF"?  Because the answer, with "turn off the profits to do X instead" effects, becomes "You actively run an empire of influence".

So, to me, it seems like a perfect fit, you know?

I absolutely see the appeal, but for me I'd rather keep this aspect simpler rather then add complexity. But of course to each their own :)

 I like the idea. We have been toying with a version of it ourselves. The Rogue Trader's family doesn't have a lot of ships owned outright. Instead when they are setting up some sort of trade route or possible venture, they buy into or make a deal with a lesser family to get them to run the goods. That way we haven't run into problems with having to build a fleet yet. I like the idea of using these as contacts as well. Say the group needs something researched or so forth while they are out gallivanting around the sector, they can use their investment to direct the research on a Hive world towards what they want.

 This is a brilliant idea!

Levi Kornelsen said:

I admire the ambition but this is what profit factor represents, only in a very abstract way.

Adding more variety to PF is all about the GM going the extra mile to make it varied in his descriptions.

To make the dynasty feel like one.....I would have each player make a list of 3-5 people, organizations, companies, planets, etc., that they have a direct stake in, influence over, and make money from. Then a similar list of things the player is after for financial gain and one or two rivals who are after some of their holdings. Use these lists to add flavor and interest to gaining and loosing profit factor from a story perspective. Keep the bookkeeping to a minimum.

Turning off the profits to do X should equal selling off or leasing the rights to one of the companies that the players created on their list. 

A byproduct of these lists is you have a ready made pot of NPC's, locations, and enemies with minimal effort on your part!

I've this for a while now but more for RP purposes than for mechanics and i don't really track it much.

I've told my players that very little PF is actually currency. Much more of it is holdings, lands, titles, factories, trade agreements, allies, friends in high places and so on.

I let my players burn PF to boost up a acquisition roll. 1 PF burnt gets a +2 bonus on the roll. This represents them selling off assets quickly and maybe not getting the best value for them due to the quick sale.

i.e. fail an acquisition roll by 5 points, burn 3 points of PF to pass it and sign over to local nobility your lands on Sepheris Secundus along with the serfs that work them.

Or maybe sell a chain of manufactories on level 65 of Hive Tarsus to house krin

Or burn your bridges with a noble that owes you a favour in return for a loan of currency at favourable rates

It isn't so much knowing what they have that is important rather than being able to contextualise what they have.

I also like to drop in occasional surprises for them, they might end up on a planet they've never visited in the calixis sector only to find that due to canny investment by their factors, they actually own a house, some land and several large grox ranches locally. It puts into perspective they way their wealth works.

 What Gribble said.  PF as a more fluid quality than cash and specific holdings, interests etc.  We keep notes on such specifics as arise during play, but aside from a loose framework, we try to avoid prescribing stuff.  This helps the players feel they have a free hand to write their half of the story (which I as GM have the right to bend, fold, spindle or mutilate), helps them feel they don't have to memorise a Cylopedia Imperialis before playing, and helps me because I don't have to invest time and effort detailing every corner only for it to be glanced over when the players want to make a quick buck and forgotten about the rest of the time.

In short: we makes it up, and then writes it down.

Agreed,

On generation I try to keep everything fluid, only noting and evaluating as fixed assets the holdings players purchase or create in the Kronus expanse for the purposes of improvement/maintenance by the group and to use as plot twists, scenario objectives or the focus of battles in the future.

I hope those who read this post any ideas they have here or in the RPG.net thread, because this is made of win and awesome.