Stag Lord said:

these were my thoughts when i first saw this thread:

yeah, i don't know -- i don't really have a problem with this version of the red viper, and i imagine i'll play around him to the same extent that i play around the threat of valar... not all that difficult to do, just another factor in the environment that a single house can include in a deck. mind you, the threat of something equivalent to a double valar will take extra care, but i'm definitely not dismayed that this guy was printed.

an additional thought, though: things will get very ugly in the situation where martell gets out 2 or 3 lost oasis, stocks its hand with a few characters, eats away at the opponent's hand with its strength at intrigue, and blows off either valar or this red viper to go on and create a more consistent form of a lannister-like playing board (more consistent because its kneel comes in the form of two cost locations rather than characters or events; and this is ignoring all martell's other forms of removal, e.g. game of cyvasse, which essentially kneels one martell character to knock out neutralize of the opponent's characters)

yeah yeah, i see where you all are coming from, but you all just dont understand. Stag and i, in our meta we've a martell player. and he's, for lack of a better word, batshit insane. his playstyle is just that insane, and hes still probably one of the best of us. now hes  been sitting out the LCG time till martell showed up again in force, but when he gets back this bloody viper will be the bane of our existence. yeah, yeah say what you will. you have no idea lol.

Wulfen613 said:

...Ok?

finitesquarewell said:

 yeah, i don't know -- i don't really have a problem with this version of the red viper, and i imagine i'll play around him to the same extent that i play around the threat of valar... not all that difficult to do, just another factor in the environment that a single house can include in a deck. mind you, the threat of something equivalent to a double valar will take extra care, but i'm definitely not dismayed that this guy was printed.

Agreed

finitesquarewell said:

Ya think?
 

 I see this guy more as a deterrent to resets than I see him being used as one. Wildfire and the only good character they have on the board is the Viper, versus your three keyworded guys? They all go. Valar? I hope you double saves.

I just don't see him as a weapon to be concerned about. I do see the potential for coming out stronger than the opponent in the right deck, but that is a strategic gamble in the building of the deck.

"I am the Prince of Dorne. Men seek my favor."

dormouse said:

i'm in this camp.

plus we have a batshit insane martell player or 2 in our meta and i'm still not overly concerned about him. the good news is that martell can't abuse his reset the way they used to be able to with bleeds, so he is not creating an unfair board advantage.

Stag Lord said:

I've played a number of games against stark and greyjoy where i initiatted 0-2 military challenges. yeah it took a little longer, but i still won.

So I had this situation where I was playing with two others, Player 1 draws Valar Morghullus (sp?), I have the Viper w/o dupes.  Player 1 has Renly w/ 1 dupe, player 3 has Robb Stark and Quoran 1/2hand w/ 1 dupe.  So does:

A) Valar kills all characters simultaneously, they use dupes to save Robb, Q, and Renly, then Viper's text takes place and he kills Robb, Renly and Q.

or

B)Viper's text happens simultaneously with Valar and Renly, Robb and Q only need 1 save and survive?

We played it A after some discussion, I just wanted to see what the opinion out there was, thanks.

Whoah, thread necro! Reminds that there's some peeps that we haven't heard from in a long time that I wish were still around.

Anyway, you played it out correctly as option A.

Awesome, thanks!  My new favorite red viper!  I just have to get some dupes for my renown characters in my deck.

flightmaster101 said:

a) definintely a)

Whether it happens simultaneously or after (I'm not getting into the intricacies of the framework for the purposes of this answer), there is still now a second kill effect on the stack. If they can only save their characters once, then p1 and p3 lose all characters.

So, did that crazy insane martel player ever used this viper??? was it as bad as the other one with lost oasis and cyvasse???

Francisco G. said:

I believe this viper was out before either of those cards came to the pool. Bear in mind, this thread was started almost 3 years ago.

stormwolf27 said:

Cyvasse entered the card pool before the Kill'em all Viper. Not quite sure about Lost Oasis, but judging from this thread, it came shortly after.