ok, I am wracking my brains….after the players bop around the universe for a bit and get some profit factor under their belts…inevitably they're going to want to buy another starship.  can they flat out buy one (assuming they locate a suitable one) or should I handle it an endeavor?  buying a ship would seem to be prohibitviely expensive, maybe locating and salvaging one might suit them better. 

thoughts?  comments?

Page 274 of the Core Rulebook has the basic idea for how to buy a new Starship. Essentially to locate the Hull you subtract the Ship Point cost from your Profit factor (so a 40 SP ship results in an Explorer with a PF of 50 rolling against a 10), and that acquires a base Hull. Then you purchase components and find a Forge World to install them. The Core rules are a little vague, so most people spice them up with their own house rules like no matter what having to burn Profit Factor equal to 1/10th the SP cost of the ship you're acquiring. It should be a major investment for any RT to roll on up and buy a ship, much less construct a new one.

There are also some other homebrew rules lurking around on the forums, but I like to go with the "You salvage a vessel" route and then make my explorers either contract someone to safely deliver it to a Forge World, or else build a colony in the sysetm where you found the vessel and draw the resources you need to repair the ship to you.

Well realistically you shouldn't  be paying for just an empty hull as there is little reason for them to exist so other components should already be factored in

Battlefleet Koronus rewrites the rules for purchasing and installing Components, but it doesn't say anything regarding getting ahold of a hull.

lurkeroutthere said:

True, but it is possible to get a hull that has damaged or even destroyed Components still in place, or empty spots where those Components have been removed if it's been through the 'chop shop' of a breaking yard.

I'm thinking that if the group wants to add a new ship to their fleet then salvage is going to become very important to them.  which only gives me an opportunity to use Stars of Iniquity to generate me some star ship graveyard encounters…i'm looking forward to that, actually.

ok, so maybe a greater endeavor to locate the hull they want, maybe pick up some ship components along the way…then find a way to haul the hull back to footfall or port wander.  then a background endeavor to get the ship into service and recruit/press gang enough people to crew the vessel.  they might even be able to sub-contract with a chartist captain or lesser Rogue Trader house to help them with the salvage and just split the costs involved.  hmm…which opens up all kinds of possiblities on it's own, now that I think of it.

Erathia said:

Yeah, the rules as listed in the main rule book are somewhat lacking when it comes to the details on expanding your RT fleet.  in every campaign i've run so far, eventually the crew gets to the point where they actually NEED another ship or two in order to run their expanding little mini-empires.  either they need an upgunned transport or want to upgrade to a bigger/better/more bad ass ship for themselves…at some point or other, the players decide they need more ships.  I just want to make that process a bit more 'organic' than a simple Profit Facto roll, which is why I was thinking of the greater endeavor route.

In our game i wrote into my rogue traders back story that his older brother was in command of the dynasty's light cruiser which was found adrift and gutted, all crew slaughtered or missing. This meant that while it wasn't usable there was another ship in the background of the adventure being repaired and refitted.

Once we had progressed in the campaign enough the GM allowed us access to the other ship, turning our existing ship into one usable in background endeavours. This was a good way of allowing us something bigger to use once we had outgrown our frigate.

The rules as listed for buying an empty hull work well, but i'd suggest the GM offer a small selection of pre-built ships (the ones in the book work well) and use their total SP as the modifer for acquisition in addition to some social (and other!) challenges in a short endeavour.

"You have successfully acquired a new Sword-class Frigate. Congratulations"

"Hey, where are all the components? Where are the weapons? Where's the bridge?"

"I'm sorry, you failed your Scrutiny Roll when you were Bartering and the seller was only contractually obligated to sell you the Hull. Which they have now done. The office in which you conducted your negotiations is now mysteriously empty. As is your current supply of liquid capital."

I'm big into prize ships.  I've never let the players build a ship from scratch.  That would take decades anyway.  Even ships that are all blown to hell would be easier to salvage, assuming their back hasn't been broken.  Look at some of the published adventures.  Into the Maw has a grand cruiser as its prize. I never did like FFG's assumption that being in space for millennia somehow degraded a ship.  It's a vacuum.  Only something running into the ship is going to cause it damage.  It's unlikely that all the systems are worthless.  Something survived.  I let them replace the broken parts and refurbish the rest. In addition to the grand cruiser, Into the Maw also has a somewhat scuttled merchant ship and two Wolfpack Raiders that try to jump the party.  It's likely they can capture one of the raiders, if not both.  The merchant could be towed back for repairs.

In The Emperor's Bounty a Lathe-class cruiser is the prize.  Sure, I'd let the players salvage the ship for some profit factor.  They could, however, forgo the PF and tow the ship back for repairs.

In Dark Frontier there is a Merchant ship (I used a Vagabond) drifting without drives.  The players helped fix that problem and recruited the Captain of the ship to work for the Dynasty shipping colonists to the system in question and bringing Cold Trade items back to Footfall.  This was an Endeavor that required them to find colonists, negotiate with the Kasballica Mission, establish xenos-tech "mining" bases, and provide security for those bases.  After they completed the Endeavor, the Merchant, Penance of Iocanthus, ran the trade route for them, hence a Profit Factor.  There were also many more ships in the same system, and after some searching the party found a somewhat intact Viper-class Scout ship that they towed back for repairs.  Now they carry some spare Geller Fields with them wherever they go so they can tow ships back to port without an obligatory "cleanse and purify the ship of warp creatures" Endeavor after towing the ship.  They also carry power cables to drape to the hulked vessel from theirs just in case of power failures.

Now we are playing Whispers on the Storm (the players are becoming veterans of All Things Yu'Vath, and they really hate them, too).  There are tons of ships in that scenario, though they are mostly system ships and I don't think I'm going to permit any salvage, though they can always go back to the Yu'Vath Fortress in Dark Frontier and search the space hulk for more ships.

Anyway, that's my two cents.  The players have now played through 9 different endeavors, are mostly Rank 3, have a small fleet of 4 working ships, 3 more ships being repaired at various drydocks (including their Grand Cruiser), and 3 colonies (which we've used some of the Stars of Inequity rules to flesh out).  We've played almost a year (we only play once a month, except December, for a 4-6 hour session).  Their PF has gone up about 25-30.  I do keep track of both real time and the players' time perspectives, so it is possible they might some day attempt to have their own ship built, but I've discouraged it and the players aren't too upset about it, though they are a bit impatient about that Grand Cruiser, which I have to constantly delay (I don't intend to let them have for a very long time, probably about the time the campaign is ready to end….give it to them for the climax).

My group has mostly salvaged hulks.  Some of the hulks they found, and a number they hulked themselves.  They have an Orion Star Clipper with Best Salvage Rig, so they grapple the hulks and drag them to Damaris or Port Wander for major overhauls.  If they hulk a ship, then I roll for component damage/destruction normally.  For found ships it often depends on the history of the ship, although they tend to be more damaged.  Some of this is due to what hulked them, and some is due to scavenging allredy suffered by the ship.  Many ships may have had components/valuables salvaged by those who were unable to drag the ship back for salvage themselves.  The players then have to make aquisition rolls to repair the hull to full, replace destroyed components, and obtain crew/navigators/astropaths.  Each roll takes a week, and failed rolls take 1d5 weeks.  They have to be present for the first month or so.  This allows them to arrange command crew and deal with setting up the dock contracts and such.  They then leave and let their factors and assigned command crew complete the repairs and fly the ship to its assigned job.  So far they have salvaged a Wolfpack Raider (Guarding one of their trade stations), a Defiant Light Cruiser (In repairs at Lathe-Hadd with the Explorator, eventually set to guard their main colony), and a Soulcage (Massively refit into a Convict Repurposing Vessel, converting convicts into servitors and Penal Legionaires).  This seems to create a reasonable timeframe for repairs, while letting the characters get good use out of their spoils.

Buying ships is a more rare occurence, partially due to the high cost and low availability of functional ships.  Obtaining damaged hulls is easier, especially if you get them from Footfall or the Breaking Yards.  Down on their luck ships, that the owners have no hope of being able to restore, can often be found there.  Others will be prizes brought back by other RTs who don't feel like doing the work to rebuild the ship or need the cash instead.  Another place to obtain ships is from Imperial Navy reserve fleets.  These ships were often mothballed due to disfavor or damage.  If the Imperial Navy doesn't want to waste the time repairing a ship, they often mothball it without repairs.  This is the best place to get larger hulls, such as grand cruisers.  Per the fluff, grand cruisers have fallen out of favor with the Imperial Navy.  This means that they have mothballed even those in good condition.  When buying a ship you have to accept it in whatever condition it is in.  This should almost never be a completely stripped hull.  This will often include at least minor damage and destroyed components.  I generally base the ship outfitting and damage on the history of the ship.  I know that my players eventally want a Repulsive Grand Cruiser.  They know that these ships have long been out of favor with the Navy, so they plan on obtaining one from the reserve fleet.  I figured out the outfitting of such a ship built for Navy service, then included the massive damage that the ship recieved before it was mothballed.  Note that ships are EXPENSIVE.  Also remember that many components add to that SP cost.  A grand cruiser starts at 71SP, and then you add weapons and components.  A cost of 80-90 or more is quite easy to obtain, even before the players modify it.  A simple transport will usually run 30+SP.  That SP cost is a negative modifier on you aquisition check, and on more expensive ships your players will be burning PF just to have a good chance of getting it.  I rule that any aquisition check for a ship fails on a 96-100, no matter how much PF they spend.  The act of going out and buying a ship, then crew, then Navigator/Astropaths should include quite a bit of roleplaying as well.  Buying a ship is a pretty rare and significant experience.

So far the way it works in my game is you generally have to aquire the things through plot, adventurism and guile. Buying is possible but to buy the sorts of ships that make you drool and you really want to buy your best bet would be to aquire a fleet of crappier ships then do some sort of massive trade in where you come out behind economically but come out ahead in your new massive space phallus starship. The only interest my players have in starship combat is in trying to batter the enemy into submission so they can tow it away/board it and check for shiny componants.