Um... I really do think the OP had an open mind... nothing aboiut his mind was closed. The only closed thing was our interpretations of his queries I think...

game on

Yes, that is why I mentioned in my first sentence of my last post that it was addressed to the future thread readers and not the OP....Because like I mentioned: this thread has resolved itself, at least insofar as the OP is concerned, without the need for my input.

Well I was actually hoping to address to future readers that AFAIK that very few people in this conversation had a closed mind, much less the OP...

Unless you were just generically warning future thread readers of the terrors of closed-minds. If it is just a cautionary warning of threats that aren't neccesarily related to this thread, I would also like to warn of a few things.

I would like to warn of Hubris, Obessive-Compulsive Disorders, Swine Flu... wait sorry... N1H1 virus... Worshipping Slaanesh, and Tau.

Well it wasn't really about open-mindedness or closed-mindedness or anything general. It was about what I perceived to be misconceptions some people are bringing to the table when comparing LCGs to boardgames. It didn't seem to warrant a whole new thread at the time, and it's not like I was a last-minute straggler that didn't take part in the previous conversations, so I tacked it onto a thread that seemed resolved.

Like this one. 

I figured the general aura of open-minded understanding permeating in this thread would extend to my arguments that the idea of the LCG is unique and quite special (in a good way) among its kind and ultimately prove to yield less resistance on a conceptual level when disseminating this fact.

(<shrug> Now that my game is up, I hope the future readers do not read past the first page.)

My question is this. Battle packs of 40 cards, but 20 original cards. Is the battle pack a set of doubles 20 and 20 or is it 20 unique and 20 I have seen in the core set?

If the Battle Packs follow the trend set by the other monthly LCG releases, then:

All 20 unique cards are never-before-seen cards (nothing repeated since launch; i.e. no repeats from Core set).

10 of the 20 unique cards are singles. The remaining 10 are repeated 3 times.

Thus, the card total comes to 10x1 + 10x3 = 40 cards.

Don't worry ruvion. I got your point precisely. A lot of people do hear about LCG and make assumptions that FFG is not supporting in their marketing of the game. I suspect it is miscommunication between other people for the most part.

One could say there is a rarity in the LCG games. They are still a collectible product if you choose to do so. The core set is all you need to ever purchase to have a fun enjoyable experience in the LCG of your choice. There is at least one full expansion already planned and anounced that adds two new factions. You do not need the expansion to enjoy te game, but it will open up new design space and thereby add a new level of strategy and require adjustments in tactics and deck design forcing you and your decks to grow and change if you add it. There will be monthy supplements to the game which will do the same thing in smaller chunks, allowing/causing an ever changing game experience. You do not have to ever buy a single Battle Pack supplement for the game to enjoy it. You do not need multiple Core Sets, Expansions, or Battle Packs, to enjoy the game on a social, casual, or comepetitive level. You will need multiples if you want a full playset of every card printed, but this is only recommended for people who want to have easy access to every faction and every card in the maximum allowable number to build any deck possible. The reality is there are cards you just won't want to have multiples in a deck at x3, some you won't want in your deck at even x2, and some you won't want in your deck at all. 

An LCG is not intended to remove collectability, remove the desire/need to purchase multiple products to stay competitive, it is about empowering the gamer. You get to decide how much of the product you want to buy, and you know precisely what you will be buying (well the very first person won't know, but waiting a day or two after the product is released will get you a card list and discription by the player community). There is no rare hunting (which is not saying there are no rares). The buy in for the game is incredibly low compared to a CCG, and it is more chaniging and growing than a board game.

LCG is not for everyone, but it provides a richness of experience and regular growth that a regular boardgame does not have, while removing the card chasing, money sink that CCGs become. It is a marriage of the two, but can be played as if it was one or the other depending on your personal choices and that of your gaming group.

Enjoy.

"I am the Prince of Dorne. Men seek my favor."

dormouse said:

QFT

I think the LCG is not close enough to CCG.  I would have liked it if it was more like CCG's in 1 aspect:  starter sets. (i posted about this on the AGOT forum).

I'd be nice if I can get people to play with my core set, get them interested and have them buy a faction starter only, instead of getting a $40 core set, when all they want is to focus on 1 faction.

I like the core set format, but as it is right now I don't think it is new players friendly.  the core set would have been much better if supported with faction starters or faction packs that allow players to build on the faction, or even to just get 1 faction to play with.

I am not a nay sayer, I have been a long time AGOT fan since the 2nd block of the CCG.  I love the game, and I love FFG stuff.  I truly do.

But I also truly wanted to bring someone in, and wished there were faction starters options.

I totally agree with the original poster.  To me, I don't play competitively but I would perfer to have all the cards 3x so that I can construct decks the way I wanted to; be it competitive or not, that is not the point.  I don't care if I am uber competitive even if I have just 1 of each of Card  X, Y and Z etc.  So telling me I'd "still be competitive" or I'd "still be able to play the game" doesnt cut it by a long shot:

I expect myself to be able to construct decks the way I want to, and that requires 3 of each cards at least.  So I have the option to take 3x a card even if it is overkill, even if it makes my deck crap and uncompetitive, even if it makes my deck no fun to play.  The point is I have the freedom to construct.

They should have released card sets, perhaps faction specific sets as standalone purchases to compliment the core set.  They failed in this regard, when a person like myself or the original poster, would really need 3 core sets (redundent and unnecessarily  expensive).

True, it would still be cheaper than CCGs.  But I am not talking about CCGs here.  I am talking LCGs.  Whether or not it is cheaper than CCG makes no difference to me, the fact remains the same:  I want 1 core set, but I need 3; making for unnecessary expenses.  Which could have been saved if they release complimentry card sets of the core cards available for sale.

And for Warhammer Invasion, it would have been the perfect time to change.

It is the only LCG of the 3 that was designed from the beginning as an LCG.  AGOT and CoC were both CCGs with existing card sets.  I think AGOT players would agree that AGOT cards in the LCG were a bit inconsistent in their design direction, with cards that affect like 1 other card in the set at the time of release.  So even with 3x of each card, deck building would still be extremely flawed due to the above fundamental problem.  This bigger problem overshadows the smaller problem of lacking 3x each cards and lack of complimentry sets.

Warhammer had the advantage of focus, where deck building would have be possible.  It would have been great if 3x are in the core set.  Or, at least have the cards released separately for faction building.

There is also some concept of profit margin going on here as well.

Consider printing massive loads of cards. You need to sell them, certain price per card they need sold at and so on...

I imagine that selling the cards i the 40 card core set is some kind of marketting target which

1.) gives people access to a good product
2.) makes money for FFG still
3.) Isn't too annoying for gaming stores to carry (as far as "starters A, B, sold but starters C, and D never sell...." kinda thing.

So you're recommending that perhaps FFG should have sold a starter of, say, Orcs, with 50 cards, at how much money? 12 USD maybe? Is that enough? How would we get those fancy capitol cards and tokens? :)

I feel for those people who are finding the LCG not suited to their needs... but try not to be so myopic. This game was not designed for you specifically. It was designed to appeal to the largest market available while still fulfilling FFG's vision. If you want to focus on a single faction then split the game with three other people. Or just one other person. Buy a second Core Set and put the factions you don't want up for sale on eBay.

The reason why FFG discontinued the House specific starters in AGoT was because certain starters were much harder to get rid of and so game stores didn't want to carry them which eventually translated into not wanting to carry any of them which led to a loss of profit. Before the switch to LCG it was still possible to buy a couple of starters from specific Houses from FFG. That  is not good. That said They have released a single House expansion for AGoT, they have another on the way. W:I has a companion set featuring the Elves coming out in the not too distant future. It is possible that you will get your wish... but even if they plan to release such sets for each faction from the beginning it would be a bad business decision to do so right now. Core Sets are selling well. People are buying all four, getting their friends involved and loaning out decks for play and convincing their friends to buy the Core Set. It makes much more sense to grab as many people as possible through this method and then introduce companion and faction sets later to pull in stragglers.

Send an email to FFG. Tell them what you want and why... being positive, polite, and siting what it is they will be getting out of it. Don't make it about you, make it about them reaching new customers. Maybe they'll listen.

I also want faction releases, for what it is worth, so don't think I'm not on your side.

"I am the Prince of Dorne. Men seek my favor."

Oh yeah, I don't know how much of a profit it will translate to FFG should they go ahead with it, but faction specific expansions?! I say bring it on! I can always use a House Tyrell, House Arryn, Night Watch, Dothraki Horde, Skaven, Lizardmen, Witch Hun'ers, Vampire Counts, and Tomb Kings factions to name a few, even if they are not supported by monthly released Chapter/Battle packs.

Faction starters is just 1 idea to pull my point along.  If FFG has a better way of solving things, all the better.

But it would really be awesome if there is a lower entry point.  Because I have in real life run into the exact problem I mentioned.  People got interested and wondered if there are faction starters for their fav. faction so that they can get 1and play.  Instead, I have to tell them they need to get the entire core set, which they don't want to do especially when I already have it.  Add this to the fact that they really cant "build" their faction with the core set too much beyond what they have already seen from my core set... so their conclusion?  They'll just play with my cards.  Thus making LCG much more like a Citadels style card game.

And I can't blame them:  The core set is $40 bucks.  I already have it, and they can play with mine, so they don't really need it.  Plus, getting it wouldn't really let them build their faction decks too much, so basically they'll be playing a very similar deck to what they already experienced from playing with my set; so even less of a reason why they should get their own.

For AGOT I can if I want to bring in cards from the old CCG days.  But for W:I, this is not an option.  So if anything, W:I should have the benefit of cheaper entry via some sort of complimentry packs.

Perhaps the companion set with elves and dark elves will be a bit cheaper for your players... which we have no information on lol.

Also: If other players buy the core set, trade them for some of their cards. Say get a 1 of card of theirs for one of your 2 of cards you're not using and maybe another one of your one of cards (cause you'd like new players right?)

Also in splitting the core set, those neutral cards get stretched thin, am i right?