mac40k said:

A group of 3 Marauders would get 4 Aggression dice, the same as a group of 10.

I have very mixed feelings about this new way adversaries are handled.  While I'm for anything that makes the GM's job easier, I'll have to reserve final judgement until I've seen more.

I don't get it. Nearly everyone complains that combat in WFRP 2 was slow, and now that it's sped up, people still complain?

I'm sure combat will still be as deadly as ever, but will go a lot faster with this henchman system. We just need a combat example to show how the finer points work (hint hint).

People love to complain. Any change is bad, if it's easier it means it's dumber, etc.

Me, I've found all earlier Warhammer editions to be clumsy and mechanically uninspired, while this looks to streamline things, while also bravely trying new things. The only definitely clumsy aspect is the dice mechanic, but I have faith that can be pretty easily houseruled into something without eight different dice piles.

Even easier, if someone doesn't like the henchmen rules, they can just not use them - it's just an extra option to make the GM's job easier, something that is always welcome.

Juriel said:

I would expect a $100 rpg to be draw droppingly fantastic, not just so-so. Why bother paying $100 for a core set that you are going to houserule? 

Enemy Threat Level – This seems to be combat oriented and smacks of D&Dism. I won’t get into a discussion on whether or not WFRP should or shouldn’t be concerned with enabling the GM to create “balanced” encounters.

There is nothing forcing a GM from using this to balance encounters.  It is merely another tool FFG is giving the GM to determine at a glance the general power of an monster compared to other monsters.  True, it can be used as a basis of adjusting party encounters if the GM wants.  I am also sure it does mostly represent combat threat.  It will be handy, though, for a GM (especially a new GM) to tell easily (generally) if a Giant Rat is more of a threat than a Giant Mole (as a random example) if he wants to throw a giant rodent in his adventure.

However, by itself the skull designations don’t provide enough information. Are four one-skull creatures the same threat as two two-skull creatures or is it some other scale? Is it impossible for a one skull physically weak creature that is cunning to be better in a social encounter than a two skull creature? Is there a skull to average PC advance table somewhere in the Tome of Adventure?

I expect the book explains the skulls more fully than the blurb given in the diary. It is impossible to know from what we are given so far.  However, I expect it is most likely only a 1v1 comparison tool, along the lines of "a single 2-skull creature is generally more dangerous than a 1-skull creature", and it likely doesn't go into depth regarding multiples or creatures.  And no, there won't be a skull to PC table.  The diary explicitly said the skull values have nothing to do with the PCs, and only compare creatures to each other.  Which makes sense, because a party's strength has too many variables in it (party composition, player disposition, player intellect, etc) to really accurately gauge.  It's also not like PCs get experience for each encounter, either, so encounters don't need to be measured or balanced in that way.

I would expect a $100 rpg to be draw droppingly fantastic, not just so-so. Why bother paying $100 for a core set that you are going to houserule?

Well, you get a lot of physical tools for your $100, like cards, dice, tokens, etc.  Not just the rules that are written.  In fact, the majority of the high cost is because of the physical tools.  Sure, if you don't want to use any of the set other than the 4 books, $100 is probably too much to spend. You're best waiting until you can buy the books separately, or find someone on Ebay selling just the books after the game comes out, etc.  However, if you plan on using the dice, cards, career sheets, etc, then the $100 cost is fairly reasonable for what you get (although still quite a bit to shell out at one time).  That seems to be what people keep overlooking.  You aren't just buying the rules.  You are buying a lot of other things along with the rulebook(s).  Imagine buying any other RPG rulebook, and then buying over two dozen custom dice for it, plus a lot of cards for talents/feats, plus cards for classes, and so on...  The rulebook alone is typically $40-$50, so another $50-$60 in physical 'stuff' is about right.

sudden real said:

Nearly everyone, i wasnt one of them. Do I have the right to complain yet?

Loswaith said:

Don`t make me laugh? PC in warhammer the Average Joe?  What, you took away their FATE POINTS? That`s not nice.

Average people in the Warhammer world don`t have FATE POINTS, heroes and adventurers as well as certain antagonists have it, but not the average run-of-the-mill.

Henchman may not be the best concept, 3e as it reminds me very much of the minion concept in D&D. But again it make it possible to use large numbers of inferior creatuers in those dramatic combats, where you want to let the players sweat a bit. And no, I won`t tell if their henchmen or not.

dvang said:

But with most other RPGs, I don't need to use over two dozen custom dice, plus a lot of cards for talents/feats, plus cards for classes, and so on to play them. in WFRP3 I can't play without them. No one, either here or on the StS forum has yet to say why this game is so fantastic. What does it do better than the previous editions that justifies the $100 outlay for the core set? Why buy this $100 game rather than the $40 alternatives?

Mal Reynolds said:

Aaand you spectacularly miss the point. Fate Points are the ONLY things seperating normal people from PCs/major antagonists etc, at least at first career. In something like D&D, the PCs are so ridiculously overpowered compared to NPCs that it breaks realism (not that D&D wants that, its just what made WFRP so much better in my opinion)

The henchmen rules throw enemy protagonists back into being much, much worse than the PCs. However, I do note that there was talk in the article of a non-henchman Gor vs a henchman Gor, so its an optional rule in any case - the intention is probably just to speed up large battles.

phobiandarkmoon said:

v3 starting characters seem to be on the same power level as v2 characters. They aren't DnD characters. The henchmen rules seem to be a way to simplify and speed up mass combat.

crimsontree said:

Why would I need ABS, Servo-steering, a GPS-System, Cruise-Control, Servo-Breaks, and all this fancy stuff in my new car, when my Mini Cooper from the 70's also managed to get me from Vienna to Graz?

Things get better and improved all the time. With your attitude, we'd still be playing D&D First Edition (shudder)

PzVIE said:

So, you respond to a question asking what improvements are in the new edition by saying he doesn't want any improvements? Straw man...

PzVIE said:

PzVIE said:

I see you haven't answered my questions. I'll repeat them.

What does it do better than the previous editions that justifies the $100 outlay for the core set? Why buy this $100 game rather than the $40 alternatives?

crimsontree said:

I simply expect it to be better, to be an improvement! I do not think that FFG will release a dog, they're too experienced for that. I don't wanna make an issue of the $100 price tag (which is approximately the price for the v2 core book two thin other books), there are threads below dealing with it. For me, a lot of the rules and mechanics I know so far from the diaries are clearly improvements, like the dicepool system vs. the %-system, Skills, Spells, Actions, Careers etc. on cards/sheets rather than divided into various books and some more. I also expect them to have developed a better encumbrance and pricing system than v2 had!

And finally, it looks better