Toqtamish said:

Nova Scotia? Other Canadians? I thought we were the only ones out here in Calgary. PM sent!

HappyDD said:

Got it and accepted and replied to you.

I agree and support Teo and i think majority of french player too.

Katsuyori (dwells in Germany) also supports Teokrata´s idea.

As a North American I mostly agree with Teo's concerns, and I really envy your communities, count yourselves lucky!

The cost to get into the game is certainly the biggest problem for the mature LCGs. Not many people are going to invest $500+ in a game they don't know if they like and they're not sure they can find more than their girlfriend to play against. It's even easier to try out Magic, because they have so many different ways to get into the game and a player base almost anywhere. This alone should raise alarm bells for FFG.

It seems to me that the purest way to provide access to, and market the LCGs would be to sell custom packs down to the individual cards through some sort of online selection and distribution process. Ie allow players to buy cards individually! Theoretically, to me, that would be awesome. Imagine how easy it would be to get into the game at a good price, and on a competitive level. What a great way to appeal to disgruntled former Magic players by saying “You want a card? Buy it at base cost! Any card you like!!” That to me would capture the LCG concept perfectly..

Unfortunately this is probably unrealistic since this customization process would be really hard to pull off as a distributor. So what type of middle ground can be found? In my opinion, cheap starter packs should be created, logically for each race. But additionally structured around certain themes or core mechanics of the more commonly used decks for each race. For example, a Verena custom pack, where by you can buy all the cards often associated with a Verena deck. This wouldn't have to be limited to a 50 card pack by any means. To keep the customization alive they could make these packs 100 cards or so, of all the cards that are somewhat complementary to the mechanic. In addition to a variety of “housekeeping” cards that the race uses. These types of decks could be created for numerous themes from each race, eg. Orc rush, Dwarf Reclaim, DE control, etc etc. It would be a great way to get into the game, even competitively so, but also maintain the element of deck customization that gives it a personal feel. Further it would maintain the superiority in options for the players who have bought all the cards, which is important too.

That's my 2 cents on how FFG could get more entry into the aging LCGs. But I'm sure there are still lots of other things they could do outside of new entry packs, such as better exposure/marketing, and more casual friendly playstyles built in, such as multiplayer..

rzarectz said:

double post

Toqtamish said:

Im talking about players who want to be able to play competitively.. Of course there's a large group of players out there who only have the core set and play it with their friends every once in a while like they do Settlers of Catan or Monopoly. But I think its implicit that we're not talking about these "treat it like a board game" type players in this thread. Not to be harsh but these players dont really matter, because as competitive players we never see them.

rzarectz said:

Wow, so much wrong with that statement. You may not see them but they help keep the game afloat without people casually buying the game it would be canceled for lack of sales. So yes they do matter.

I agree that starter decks or packs allowing to play almost after purchase are the most efficient way to invite new players to the game and keep card game LIVING

Toqtamish said:

What I know is that you saying an entire segment of the player base does not matter is incredibly rude and ignorant. Any argument you make in support of that kind of a statement is just ridiculous.

Also casuals can buy more than just the core box set so your numbers are not accurate. Not just "competitive" players will buy all of the expansions.

But what do I know, apparently I DON'T MATTER according to you.

As much as I'm enjoying the irony of the Invasion civil war starting on the "kumbaya" thread where people were originally saying what country they are from and how much they supported the idea of international support for the game, it really doesn't matter how we define players. If "Casual Player A" bought the core set in 2009 because it was shiny and new and they compulsively buy games, then good for them. They will probably not show up for a small local tournament for a variety of reasons. The comment "They don't matter because we never see them" was probably not to be interpreted as "if you don't own every Invasion card you are unimportant" which is disrespectful, probably more like "I am not taking them into consideration since the only reason I think the majority of people buy all the cards is to play competitively in groups", which might not be true.

I think Rzarectz means that it really sucks if a main reason Player A won't show is the distribution model and that they can't buy back up to a "competitive" level at a reasonable price. The idea of having a pack of, I dunno, 99 cards called "Forces of the Empire" or something, that gets you 3 copies all the really good Empire cards from across lots of cycles, for $40, is a really good idea. So is having a core set supplement pack that brings you up to 3 copies of each card if you buy it and the core set. So is having a dedicated core of organized play people at FFG who help local organizers and advertise like crazy for Warhammer Invasion. The ultimate direction depends on how many people would buy these non-existent packs or get into the game, which none of us know.

It's a catch 22, you can't build a community without having a way for new players to pick up cards, have a good time, and win some games; and you won't get the easy-access card distribution model without more demand coming from new players wanting to enter the game.

In our group all sorts of people are buying into Netrunner, which is new and shiny. Will they all be around 3 expansion cycles in? I don't know, but I know at that point it will be hard to get new people to play Netrunner. Maybe the LCG model is doomed to follow this cycle, with the exception of Game of Thrones (for whatever reason).

Toqtamish said:

Oh stop with the drama.. If you get so emotionally involved in your debates maybe you shouldn't post in online game forums. If you were approaching this reasonably you'd have understood that I didn't say your segment of the player base doesn't matter. I said they don't matter to competitive players, because generally casual core set only players never come out and play against competitives.  With respect to FFG, how much you matter to them is directly proportional to how much money you've spent on their products. They are not your grandmother they are a business. I showed with a gernerous division of the player base that even if they only make up 20% of players who've ever bought the core set, competitives still account for over 80% of WI revenue.  Argue all you want about the the exact numbers it won't change this contrast. If youre buying a lot of expansions then you are not really a casual "treat it as a board game" player are you? I think it was obvious that what I meant by a "casual player" is someone who hasn't bought more than the core set..  

I'm glad you enjoy the game as a casual with only a small subset of the cards, that's good for the game. But were talking about getting people into WI the customizable card game, not the board game. How to get more players out to WI organized play doesnt involve core set only players so why even bring them up..  

75,3% of statistics are made up on the spot.