In the Balance, “Alpha” 1
Adventure Cards, Part 1, 3/6/2009

ALPHA VERSION NOTES

As a partial first release limited to the FFG Talisman forum community, I ask that you not redistribute the file or its linkage elsewhere. I’ve also kept any notes or instructions to a minimum. I would like to see how well a small selection of new and experienced players do in interpreting use of these cards before adding further instructions or cards and taking the next release (of Adventure cards only) to the Beta level.

I suggest you print these B&W by convenient means for testing. It’s not recommended that you spend too much time or money in production, as some or all cards may change.

You are more than welcome to provide feedback and suggestion via this original topic in which the distribution file was linked. All reasoned constructive response will be considered, including potential follow up questions. I would like to make this as viable an expansion as possible. This feedback will be used to make adjustments and improvements to cards included, as well as further ones, before s subsequent release includes even more cards. Eventually, the final release will include 104 new Adventure cards to be followed by later release of matching counts for other decks.

The file may be downloaded HERE (5.4mb).

For those interested in the theory and analysis that led to the development of these cards and used as a ongoing guide for all my expansion work, see my log link in the signature of all of my posts. Look for log posts under the heading of "Balancing the Talisman."
 

Hoorah! Good to see this released so we can play with it. Funnily enough I just updated my front page to report on this, so it's all good! Great work JC!

downloading now, hopefully it wont be to long before i get a chance to play again, and try them.

Hi JC Hendee,

I like some cards that you have made, but i have some questions about it.

Guivre ( enemy dragon

If you must roll a die, when do you fail exactly.

Must i roll under my strength with one die and adds a + 1

( does natural strength mean( only the strength with tokens and starting strength) but not from objects and followers?

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Dispossessed card

Why does it say any dice and any purpose?or any pressence?

In my eyes it's a enemie that you must battle and if you roll a 1, than you may not count magic objects..

what do you mean exactly with this card.

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Old Battlements card

I don't understand what you mean with this card.

Does the wall has a strenght of 10 or a craft of 9?

Or must the character has a strength 10 or a craft of 9?, so what must he do then? How must you combat it then ?

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Cool :) I will definitely obtain these and do a print out when I get the chance. Right now, kinda blitzed after working 12 hours straight on my own project :s

I am so sick of the crappy forum code here... I've lost my post 7 times in a row.  FFG needs to get someone in here who knows better about ASP 2 and 3, XML and XHTML.  It's more frustrating, since I know design mistakes that have been made!!!  As an old codehead, I can smell them... anyhow...

Hi Velhart... questions are what I'm after as well as suggestions, so keep them coming. Questions tell me where refinement is needed.  But first... did you read the brief documentation, and was there anything there that wasn't clear? A couple of minor points were covered in there, and it is important to know if that document was not good enough. 

Here's some manual quotes and answers I hope will help.  And anyone else working with the cards should feel free to suggest alternative wording for cards to be considered.

Guivre -- If you must roll a die, when do you fail exactly?

I see I should change that to "roll 1D6+1 UNDER Natural Strength" ... and you add +1 to the die roll that is compared to Natural Strength. You are correct that Natural Strength is only your Starting Strength plus accumulated points. Followers and Magic Objects cannot help a character versus disease that affects it.

Dispossessed -- Why does it say any dice and any purpose?or any pressence?

Any dice roll of 1 for any reason (Combat, Movement, certain Spells, etc.) while on this monster's space results in failure of all magic objects until your next turn. This would include fighting it, or rolling to move away on the next turn (if you fail to defeat it), any Spell requiring a roll of a die... any die roll at all while on its space.

Old Battlements -- Does the wall has a strenght of 10 or a craft of 9?

Yes, both, for purposes of overcoming it.  You can try to overcome it as you wish, Strength or Craft, but only through Strength can you damage it enough to permanently remove it.

JCHendee said:

I have read some parts of the manual now( yes, i have first take a look at the cards. ( so my thinking was right about natural strength;)

But i saw a error in  shorthand references. If you take a look at the craft section , you see at the end strength.( that must be changed to craft.

I have some more question about the cards.

Dispossessed card

I know what you mean now with this card, but can you changed the text then, so that we know that you can't use magic objects( if you roll a 1) if you stand on this place and not only in battle for all pupose( spell, moving etc.The card does not say what you actually mean with this card.

Old Battlements card

So you must battle the wall by strength or craft and the wall can also roll a D6 dice.

The reason for this question is, that i thought that the character needs only a strength of 10 or a craft of 9 to break the wall without battle)

But what do you mean with. if you defeat the wall with 6+ ?

Jak's Emporium card

I must say that i like this card the most from all the cards that you have made at this moment;) ( i think it's about the artwork;)

Anyway my question is:

I see that he is selling objects for 2 gold. ( the most cards he receive will be from players who are selling their objects.

But the question is about, that you can buy objects for 2 gold:

I don't like it, if i have a double shield or a double armour and sell it for 1 gold, so that another player can buy it for 2 gold ! that goes also for the shield. I rather go to the alchemist  to sell it so it;s gone from the board  Maybe you can think about something else for this?

Second Question: I think that it's better if you get 2 gold for magic objects instead of one gold. ( 1 gold is very cheap for a magical object

Anyway, the best point about Jak is his spells. there is finaly a card( or i forget something lol) where you can sell your spells to get rid of them if you don't like them,

...error in shorthand references. If you take a look at the craft section , you see at the end strength.( that must be changed to craft.)

Got it!

Dispossessed -- can you changed the text so we know that you can't use magic objects( if you roll a 1) if you stand on this place and not only in battle for all pupose( spell, moving etc.The card does not say what you actually mean with this card.

Got it!  I'll see what kind of wording changes can make it better. Suggestions from anyone are welcome.

Old Battlements --  So you must battle the wall by strength or craft and the wall can also roll a D6 dice. The reason for this question is, that i thought that the character needs only a strength of 10 or a craft of 9 to break the wall without battle)

Yes, another difficulty with wording. You do battle the wall, and it does have a roll as well. So wording again needs to be tweak. Again, suggestions are welcome.

But what do you mean with. if you defeat the wall with 6+ ?

If you defeat the wall, you may continue you move. If you defeat it by 6 or more in Combat (not Psychic Combat), it is discarded. This approach to and "Obstacle" place is a new experiment. It may or may not work well enough to keep.  Suggestions anyone?

Jak's Emporium -- he is selling objects for 2 gold. the most cards he receive will be from players who are selling their objects.

Yes, he keeps what he buys instead of sending them off to the Adventure discard or the Purchase pile. Originally I had him buying only Spells and Magic Objects, though that limited what he had to sell when drawn, and I wanted him to have more than just the same as the other spell sellers.

His advantage for Objects is another place to sell such for gold when a character needs gold before going elsewhere. It also means that adventurers have to deal with getting to an an openly displayed object and having to pay for it instead of just picking it up. Jak is a profiteer, and he knows who has a lot of gold their willing to spend - adventurers! But I may turn him back to only dealing in Spells and Magic Objects... if any adventurer (without the Alchemist) is desparate for Gold. Perhaps he should offer more gold for such to make him more attractive than the City's Alchemist. In this he also keeps Magic Objects in play to others to go after instead of discarding them via the Alchemist.

But the question is about, that you can buy objects for 2 gold: I don't like it, if i have a double shield or a double armour and sell it for 1 gold, so that another player can buy it for 2 gold ! that goes also for the shield. I rather go to the alchemist to sell it so it;s gone from the board Maybe you can think about something else for this?

That's certainly a reasonable tactical choice. I listed Objects at 2G because I didn't have room to list a full set of prices for Objects. It's another sign that maybe he shouldn't deal in mundane Objects. Thoughts from anyone else?

I think that it's better if you get 2 gold for magic objects instead of one gold. 1 gold is very cheap for a magical object.

A good idea... and that would make adventurers think twice about selling off Magic Objects to the City's Alchemist. 

The best point about Jak is his spells. there is finaly a card( or i forget something lol) where you can sell your spells to get rid of them if you don't like them

And he has the advantage they you can see a spell before you buy it (if he has one), instead of drawing it randomly. Hmm... maybe he should start with 2 Spells?  Any thoughts, anyone?

Here are some potential revisions based on comments so far:

GUIVRE, Enemy-Dragon, Strength 4

• Win or lose, roll 1D6+1 under your Natural Strength. Fail and you succumb to its diseased breath. On rolled movements of 5+ spaces, lose a Life until you visit the Doctor, Healer, Physician, or any “Witch.”

OLD BATTLEMENTS, Place-Obstacle.

• STOP HERE! [Strength 10, Craft 9]  To finish your move, “Combat” the wall by Strength or Craft (the wall does not roll a die). Fail and you must turn back on your next move. Defeat the wall with Strength by 6+, and it is forever breached (discard)
• NOTE: I changed it to sub-classification "Obstacle," which keeps it outside of certain new Event influences but perhaps clarifies it more, I hope.

DISPOSSED, Enemy-Monster, Strength 4

• Aetheric. Created by a fouled exorcism, if while on its space you roll 1 on any die (combat, movement coming or going, etc.), all your Magic Objects fail to work until your next turn.

JCHendee said:

I have still a question about the wall

i don't understand really what you mean with 6+

so, if i have a strength 6 or above, and i roll the die,and i have a score of 11 then the wall is discarded and i can move further?

Does this mean that someone with a strength 5 and would roll a 6 and the total is 11. then the wall is not discarded?

i assume that if the total is 10 , then it is a stand- off right?

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Carrier card

One thing bothered me if i read the text.

Must you give the carrier as soon as you have her, 2 objects or CAN she carry 2 objects for you? I miss the word CAN in the text...

Off course, you want to get rid of her as soon as possible..

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I was thinking about Jak's emporium.

What do you think about if Jak can draw each time a spell card from the deck, when a player sells a spell card to him.

Then you can buy spells there, and if you sell him a spell, he gets a new one in his shop;) ( Jak is the best;) ( i like this idea)

i don't understand really what you mean with 6+

You roll in Combat, as it says. If you have S7 and roll a 6, then you have total of 13.  As noted, the wall does not roll and has a flat S10. So you did beat it and get to continue your move.  BUT..... "Defeat the wall with Strength by 6+" means you'd need to have a 16 to make it go away forever....

Hmm... made I should just list it that way, huh?   This is why I need feedback.  I know audiences of novels and prose, ... and I can crunch numbers and delve deep into mixed and compound probabilities... but I have never tried to "author" for game players. 

Time for another rewrite of the Old Battlements!

Carrier card - Must you give the carrier as soon as you have her, 2 objects or CAN she carry 2 objects for you?

Got it!  You are right to be confused... it should say she MAY or CAN carry.

Off course, you want to get rid of her as soon as possible..

Indeed!  I wanted to try a cursed or penalty Follower who still had some benefit if someone wanted to risk keeping her. 

Say, she gets drawn, then you move on running for the Doctor or Healer. Suddenly you draw another valuable magic object along the way.  Well, she can carry it for you if you already have 4 objects. Before you get "cured" of her, (1) you better decide which object you have to drop, (2) or once cured of her, she drops what is carrying, or (3) you suffer her presence even longer to carry the extra object.

And as stated on the card, all "Noble" followers abandon you when she appears. (Nobles are whimper and don't even want the sniffles.)  Which means "yes" there are two new Noble followers coming: the Duke and the Duchess, whose benefits are slightly different than the Prince and Princess.

What do you think about if Jak can draw each time a spell card from the deck, when a player sells a spell card to him.  Then you can buy spells there, and if you sell him a spell, he gets a new one in his shop;

Okay, I'm a little lost. Let me set up an example with options and you pick which one you mean.

When Jak is drawn and place, he immediately gets a Spell and a Purchase to sell. (NOTE: I'm considering dropping Purchase and have him deal only in Spells and Magic Objects). When an adventurer visits and sells him a Spell for 1G, Jak then...

• keeps the spell to resell?
• discards it and draws a spell to sell in its place?
• both?

While I'm waiting for Velhart's reply... here are some further modifications made for Alpha release cards.  These reflect ongoing modification for when it is time to put this partial release in "Beta" ... and that will include additional cards as well.

OLD BATTLEMENTS, Place-Obstacle

• STOP HERE! Strength 8, Craft 7.  To finish your move, fight the wall in Physical or Psychic Combat. If you win, finish your move. If not, turn back on your next move. If you win with Strength by 6 or more points, the wall is forever breached (discard).
• NOTE: I lowered S & C and had the Wall roll as well. This makes the card more compatible with alternative combat systems, such 2d6 or 3D6. Without a roll for the wall, alternative dice combat would have made it too easy to beat.

CARRIER, Follower-Human

• Transient.  Drop all "Noble" followers on your space! A "diseased" figure follows you. She may carry 2 Objects, but on movements of 5+ (by any means), lose a Life or other Follower. Visit the Chapel, Doctor, or Healer to discard her.

JCHendee said:

Hi JCHendee

Just came back from work , so sorry for the waiting

Old Battlements:

I understand what you mean now, but i think you must changed some things.

The player must know, that the wall have a strenght 10 or a craft 9, and that the wall may not roll a die. ( because if i read it, then i think that the character need strenght 10 or craft 9 etc)

I think it's better if you changed 6+ to 16 or higher. I think that players then wll understand the meaning of the wall.

If it was made that way, then i think i would not ask too many questions about it

Carrier card:

About the nobles.  Princess and  the Prince are in my eyes nobles too, so i have not think about that you made new noble cards..

It's a good idea must i say. If i am right, someone has made a noble expansion for the 2th edition...

Jak's Emporium

If a character sells Jak a spell, then Jak will receive a new spell in his shop.

This way, characters can buy spells that other characters have sell to jac, AND Jac receive a new spell each time a character sell a spell to him.

Off course. Characters must still pay 3 gold for the spells.

The card(jak) will become a interesting card, and he gets new goods(spells) in his shop. I hope you like my idea

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There is only one problem  that i have found out if jak sells his spells.

That's about the wizard, and the wand card or other characters that gets automatic spells like the sage. Those characters can easily sell his spells and become filty rich !

This is something that we must think about. Maybe you must make a rule that only non magicians may sell his spells and buy spells from jac or something. Because i see already a problem ahead

Hey V, don't worry about the wait. I can only jump over here now and then myself. I just appreciate any feedback anyone has time for whenever.

Velhart said:

What this means is you "fight" the wall by whichever you choose, Strength or Craft.  NOTE: And the wall now gets a roll as well (see previsous post for reasons). Example:

1. You are Strength 9; Wall is Strength 8. 
2. You roll a 5 for a Total of 14. The wall rolls a 4 for a total of 12. 
3. You win, but only by 2 points (14 - 12 = 2). 
4. You get to finish your move in the direction you were headed, but the wall was not damaged enough for others to find that opening. So it remains. 

Another example:

1. You roll a 6 (Total 15), and the wall rolls a 1 (Total of 9).
2. You beat the wall by 6 (15 - 9 = 6), so you get to finish your move AND and the wall is discarded. 

I'm not sure I can re-word it any clearer in the card's limited space.  If you or anyone else can see a better exact wording, by current or traditional Talisman terms, let me know.  I may just have to scrap this card and try something else.

Velhart said:

Questions are GOOD; never worry about that.  I'm still learning how to write for this new "audience" of gamers.

Velhart said:

Yes, I believe I remember someone creating a pack of Nobles for 2nd.  I'm not sure, but they may have been part of something for an alternative to the City expansion. The Duke and the Duchess will be in the coming Beta release (likely by next Sunday) which will include all Alpha cards with edits as well as more cards for people to review if they like.

Velhart said:

Correct. And that is how it is worded. Jak "keeps" all Spells he buys. PLUS you get to see his Spells before you buy.  (When you buy spells from some Strangers at 1G, you had to draw them randomly.)

Velhart said:

Yes, I see you point... but adventurers must still land on him first.  That's not easy to do by normal movement.  So getting to Jak just to sell a spell had better be worth what you spend (in Fate, etc.) to get there. I think probably selling can be limited to 1 Spell, Object, etc. per visit, and that will be enough to keep spell-users from getting rich (along with having to reach Jak each time). 

Here are some final revisions on cards discussed so far. (I will now use discussions and comments to look at other cards and begin preparing the new download for this coming weekend... or sooner.)

OLD BATTLEMENTS, Place-Obstacle

• STOP HERE!  To finish your move, fight the wall (Strength 8, Craft 7) in Physical or Psychic Combat.  If you win, finish your move.  If you win with Strength by more than 5 points, the wall is forever breached (discard).

CARRIER, Follower-Human

• Transient. Drop all "Noble" followers on your space! A "diseased" figure follows you. She may carry 2 Objects for you, but on movements of 5+ (by any means), lose a Life or other Follower. Visit the Chapel, Doctor, or Healer to discard her.

GUIVRE, Enemy-Dragon

• Strength 4.  Win or lose, roll 1D6+1 under your Natural Strength.  Fail and you succumb to its diseased breath.  On rolled movements of 5+, lose a Life or a Follower until you visit the Doctor, Healer, Physician, or any "Witch."

DISPOSSESSED, Enemy-Monster

• Strength 4.  Aetheric.  Created by a fouled exorcism, if while on its space you roll 1 on any die (combat, movement coming or going, etc.), all your Magic Objects fail to work (until your next turn).

JAK'S EMPORIUM, Stranger-Humanoid

• Rural.  No one can steal from this "dusky" elf.  Draw 1 Spell & Purchase to place face up with him. You may sell him 1 Spell (1G) or Magic Object  (2G) per visit. He keeps and sells what he buys: Spell 2G; Object (City prices); Magic Object 5G.

When Jak is drawn and place, he immediately gets a Spell and a Purchase to sell. (NOTE: I'm considering dropping Purchase and have him deal only in Spells and Magic Objects). When an adventurer visits and sells him a Spell for 1G, Jak then...

keeps the spell to resell?
discards it and draws a spell to sell in its place?
both?
---------------------------

Hi JcHendee,

I mean both.

He keeps the spell that he get from characters and  also draw another spell when a character sell him a spell...

That is what i actually mean with my story and about the wizard or sage etc

It's a idea......

Because it's not easy to get spells in the game, maybe you can combine it so that you can also buy spells from the draw deck.

spell 2 gold ( draw one card from the top of the spell deck)

spell 3 gold. you can buy the face up spell card( that are placed with jac. ( includes also the spell cards that jac draws when someone sell him a spell.

 I write it again so i hope you understand what i mean otherwise my idea don't come through

HI V. Okay, I understood this time... but I will pass on that idea.  Too many Spells could build up on Jak and deplete the Spell deck.  Plus, he's not a mage or wizard... just a huckster and profiteer looking to make some gold.  I would rather keep him that way, since there is already one Stranger in the deck that sells random draws of spells for 1G.