Interesting.

But I am assuming they wont have the typical psyker like powers of telepathy, empathy, telekinesis, mind reading, mind control and so forth.

So that does raise the question, that if they are "psykers" in any sense of the word, are they prone to possession and other negative effects of the warp.

Is there any fluff supporting Navigators being Chaos Touched? Would help with an adventure Idea I have at the moment.

Their first incarnation (RT rulebook) they weren't psykers as standard, just had a special mutation, but they had just as much chance as any other human to be a psyker, and had access to all the standard psyker powers (the only ones which were special being the ones for Astropaths, most of which actually had no tabletop effect, yet were listed anyway). Combined with the other things mentioned, it looks like that Lexicanum article is just wrong about them never having other psychic powers.

borithan said:

I would not say it is wrong, only that the topic is open for discussion. After all, that article says that no one know the full extent of the eyes powers, only perhaps the paternova. But ok, the powers of the navigator is concentrated around his third eye. That does not mean his not a psyker, just that they use the powers of the warp in a different way. The eye could be the thing that protects navigators from being possesed. I don't think that is to far fetched since they can look into the warp with it and other people can not. A personal gellar shield.

From the old Rogue Traider:

"Navigators are mutants of a very special kind, and although their appearance can vary a great deal they always have the power to navigate through warp space. Although this is a psychic ability, navigators never have other psychic powers and are no more vulnerable to psychically attuned warp creatures than any normal human." (pg 150)

Also, they could be space marines. Woot.

Action_Carl said:

Yes, yes, we've established that Rogue Trader said they couldn't be psykers... but then, Rogue Trader also included Space Marines with shuriken catapults, half-human/half-Eldar hybrids in positions of authority in the Imperium, hoverboards, Harlequins running around with looted Land Raiders, and an Inquisitor named Obi-Wan Sherlock Clouseau.

Just because it says something in Rogue Trader does not automatically make it the undeniable truth...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

And much of that stuff was dead on silly.

So can we just agree that as of now there is no official line on how psyker a neavigator is? Even in that blurb about Navigator's on the Rogue Trader page there is no reference to psyker powers.

SO we are assuming they will have psyker powers now?

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Yes it does, because everything released since then has has succeded only in turning a creative and dynamic universe into a bad heavy metal album cover that takes itself way too seriously.

Action_Carl said:

Oh, you're one of those people. In which case, I won't argue with you, because you're opinion is likely too tightly-held to see anyone else's (based on previous encounters with people who despise anything written for 40k after the 1980s).

Personally, though, I feel that if even half the background in the Rogue Trader rulebook was republished today, it'd look like a half-assed parody of what 40k is at the moment.

And, when people complain that a setting "takes itself too seriously now", it's normally because they miss the humour of the older version, failing to remember that humour is inherently subjective and will not appeal to everyone universally. It's one of the reasons that most RPGs don't include deliberately humorous elements anymore - because what the writer's find funny isn't necessarily what the readers will find funny, and because most of the best RPG humour comes from the interactions of the individual players within a group, not from the setting itself.

There, I've said my piece, and I'm leaving it at that.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Seconded.

I find the early 40K stuff to be so silly that I cant even look at it. I think they have done a marvelous job in turning a second rate sci-fi pot-pie of ideas into a sound, stable and coherent setting that is strong enough and consistent enough to be a good foundation for a RPG, a TT game, a series of Video Games, a comic book series, a series of novels and several specialist games. Hopefully the continue to refine the universe and it matures enough to hold its own film or series.

Action_Carl said:

Is this because of the rules or because that is the way they wanted the background? One of my reasons for wanting navigators to be psykers is because it sounds logical. If the Astronmicon sends out a psykic signal then you have to be a psyker to hear it.  Psykers are psykers. The other reason is because of the rules. With psykic powers a navigator has another asset when it comes to regular adventuring and a place to fill in a party.

I can agree that it sounds risky to have the navigator to tag along if there is only one on the ship but I am sure that can be solved. Military vessels also have one navigator and the risk of dying on the ground can't be that much bigger compared to die in a spacebattle. Anywat even if it is, then military vessels must have a backup plan.

I can agree that it sounds risky to have the navigator to tag along if there is only one on the ship but I am sure that can be solved. Military vessels also have one navigator and the risk of dying on the ground can't be that much bigger compared to die in a spacebattle. Anywat even if it is, then military vessels must have a backup plan.

I assume that a navigator's place during a space battle will be somewhere deep within the guts of the biggest ship of the fleet (assuming configurations with one flagship navigating for the entire fleet are possible), for precisely that reason. The back-up plan would likely consist of the short controlled jumps chartist merchant vessels are forced to make which most likely makes the fleet unuseable for the war they're engaged in.

Cifer said:

Ok, deep within the ship, but what happens if the navigator is killed? You can get out of the battle but can you get home? I know I am streching it here but if the navigator is going to be a playable character, then he has to get out of the ship. I suggest that every navigator should have a couple of juniors, from his own house, in training. Not full fledged navigators but skilled enough to use the safest routs. You could always argue that it has not been heard of but on the other hand, no one had heard about the stuff in RT or this subjective thing called "canon" either before it was written. Otherwise the navigators must remain on the ship. Meaning you would loosing parts of the setting. Sure, the NPC-navigator could hire the Captain for a mission concerning his house but that can't compare by having the character in the group.  

Im pretty sure that in several of the novels converning ships (such as Relentless, Rogue Star and Star of Damocles) the Navigator was not alone or isolated. He was surrounded by servants, assistants and others. Its not a major stretch of the imagination to see them as having younger members of their guilds/familes/clans onboard with them to receive training and experience in the art of the jump. They are probably allowed to navigate the ship on minor jumps or to help "steer" the ship.

But knowing that one day they will be ravaged by mutation to the point that they will never leave their chambers/section of the ship, the senior navigators probably encourage their juniors to get off ship as often as possible, or to take up lesser charters on smaller ships to see the universe and live life a bit before being imprisoned by their own mutant bodies.

So larger ships probably have several "experienced" navigators and even more juniors (a la the PCs).

I stil think the game will start fairly low powered, a Serenity level with an Astropath and a Navigator added.

Well, trying my best not to be smug but according to the latest designer diary, I pretty much nailed the set up with navigators right on.

Robban-O said:

I think most people did see that variation coming.